> Am I chasing a setting that doesn't exist? Is there code in the MAME source base now > to special case these "bright" objects and do HDR rendering?
You're chasing a concept that doesn't exist in MAME. Vector games had a brightness control that the game could adjust per vector drawn, and MAME respects that. But Asteroids uses a trick to get the super-bright shots: they draw the shot multiple times in a row at max brightness, which gives a brighter shot than the CRT is normally capable of showing. MAME currently lacks two things necessary to make this work: HDR rendering, and tracking the amount of time each line/dot is being drawn in each frame.
> its not gone...see my post above... try it > > you can even do more than 1.0 vector bloom, if its not enough, but than it gets > insane . > > proof:
In the previous versions, I left the default settings and got a nice blur effect. Using the settings above, I get something close but it still doesn't look as good as in the image you attached.
no you misunderstood me... i use 0161 but with all HLSL features of 0162 . Just didnt like the merge of MAME and MESS and was to lazy to compile a "arcade" version of 0162. This should look exactly the same on 0162.
There are MAME arcade compiles around of 0.162. I uploaded binaries 64 bits and 32 bits in the download page of my MAME frontend (MEGA links). http://emuloader.mameworld.info/downloads.htm
> What's not to like about the merge in the newest MAME? One emulator is much better > then having two that does the same thing.
dont want to go offtopic, but to answer your question: i dont need MESS, the consoles/computers i am interested in, have way better alternative emulators. also i have my own setup of emulators that works well enough.
it needed a tremendeous amount of work for frontend developers to make all the changes, so that the frontends can work with MAME properly again. time that was wasted, to do better and more usefull features for the frontend IMHO.
you can like the fact, that you only need one emulator, but in that state it is pretty much useless for me. maybe in some years i will change my mind and i may will take a look on this, just to see how far the development of MESS has come, but right now... zero interest.
> There are MAME arcade compiles around of 0.162. > I uploaded binaries 64 bits and 32 bits in the download page of my MAME frontend > (MEGA links). > http://emuloader.mameworld.info/downloads.htm
this is very nice from you, but thanks, i will do my own compiles .
thats your opinion, but i have mine... and i totally disagree to that. there was and there is many stuff in the www that looks promising, but i dont count MESS to it. nothing usefull in there for me and i dont play tiny handheld-games on a 28" screen for obvious reasons... like i said, maybe in some years or decades, when it reaches a level that is nice and ok.
Quote: it needed a tremendeous amount of work for frontend developers to make all the changes...
I'll say... I'm doing it. Emu Loader's core is built for MAME arcade. I've changed several parts of the core already so EL can handle software lists. But Emu Loader will never be able to fully support MESS advanced features. For that I would have to code the frontend from scratch. At least EL will have some basic MESS machines support. Build softlist's games list, select games, view preview images, history.dat text, and start the game. Other than that, it's just not possible due to the way EL was coded.
> nothing usefull in there for me and i dont play tiny handheld-games on a 28" screen > for obvious reasons... like i said, maybe in some years or decades, when it reaches a > level that is nice and ok.
You're a complete fuckwit. MESS is the best emulator for quite a number of systems, and is the only emulator for quite a lot more. Just because it doesn't perfectly emulate the bullshit systems that the unwashed masses demand doesn't mean it isn't objectively a good thing. Fuck you. The history of computing and game consoles consisted of a whole hell of a lot more than just hurr durr Nintendo and Sega.
A very bold claim. When MESS will be able to perfectly emulate all Commodore 64/128 VIC-II video chip features, I'll be proud to use it. Otherwise, I still stick with old VICE (and with my real C64 when I have time). http://mametesters.org/view.php?id=5948 This is a pure example, there are more but related to Computers/Consoles I don't use it so I cannot speak for them.
> ...Asteroids uses a trick to get the super-bright shots: they draw the shot multiple times in a row at max brightness, which gives a brighter shot than the CRT is normally capable of showing. MAME currently lacks two things necessary to make this work: HDR rendering, and tracking the amount of time each line/dot is being drawn in each frame.
Fascinating. Finally someone explained why. I actually like the image quality of AAE better - it's crisper, and the glow is more translucent - but MAME has full controller support, etc, and I'm optimistic the above conditions will be satisfied in time.
> A very bold claim. When MESS will be able to perfectly emulate all Commodore 64/128 > VIC-II video chip features, I'll be proud to use it. Otherwise, I still stick with > old VICE (and with my real C64 when I have time). > http://mametesters.org/view.php?id=5948 > This is a pure example, there are more but related to Computers/Consoles I don't use > it so I cannot speak for them.
So the C64 and C128 represent all computers and consoles supported my MESS? You're a fucking retard, dude.
> > A very bold claim. When MESS will be able to perfectly emulate all Commodore 64/128 > > VIC-II video chip features, I'll be proud to use it. Otherwise, I still stick with > > old VICE (and with my real C64 when I have time). > > http://mametesters.org/view.php?id=5948 > > This is a pure example, there are more but related to Computers/Consoles I don't > use > > it so I cannot speak for them. > > So the C64 and C128 represent all computers and consoles supported my MESS? You're a > fucking retard, dude.
I don't read in my post this statement. I'm sorry for you, but your beloved MESS is not the best emulator on the earth. There are for a lot of COMPUTER/CONSOLES systems better alternatives, even with accurate cycle-exact emulation. Sad but true, isnt'it? Go.. take your gift.
Moogly Guy... please not... i dont want flamewars with you (its quite the opposite) and the thread moves way to offtopic. I always said, that it is my opinion, which is not a law or something and I never said that MESS in general is useless. I just did not like the merge with MAME. I use MAME in a cab-only setup, therefore i dont need the tons of computer/handheld emulation, as it is difficult to setup properly and it does not make much sense in that case. I guess that i am not alone with my setup and that there are many that use a similar scenario.
Second: Frontend developers needed much time to support the current MAME and in my case, i would rather see Tom Speirs going ahead for the long awaited GameEX Evolution, instead of investing time for a MAME/MESS merge, that in my opinion is questionable. I especially dislike the force, how this merge was done.
Third: MESS is becoming more interesting, as it uses the same shader-system as MAME. That is a big bonus comparing to other existing emulators and the many consoles that MESS unites under one roof. This is still no reason to rant on Frontends like Retroarch, that are following the same concept, with even better shaders (considering also the fact, how many plattforms it supports) or describing better emulators like ParaJVE for Vectrex as "rotten", because the development is in a halt. Considering that ParaJVE use JAVA and works till today without any flaws (and will work for years to come, for sure) and was used by the homebrew scene for decades to create even new games.
Off course the emulationworld is not only about SEGA, NES, SNES, PS1 or Commodore, but those are the most wanted and interesting ones. I mean nobody would care about MAME if it would mainly consist of fruit and casino games .
If you find this merge so great, why was UME in the past not always accepted from the MAME devs. ? I remember bloody discussions on initial-release of UME.
Summarizing this facts, i do not see a sense of the merge, except for the open-source deal, which is good for all MESS devs. or for the fact that people will more notice MESS now (which i still think will not happen, because it misses the "most wanted").
Last but not least, coming back on-topic:
> Fascinating. Finally someone explained why. I actually like the image quality of AAE > better - it's crisper, and the glow is more translucent - but MAME has full > controller support, etc, and I'm optimistic the above conditions will be satisfied in > time.
uuuuh yes.... there will be some love for sure. did you try the suggested settings from my above post? its pretty close to AAE.
> If you find this merge so great, why was UME in the past not always accepted from the > MAME devs. ?
There were certain technical and emu-political issues with UME. Most of those are now less interesting or gone entirely.
> Summarizing this facts, i do not see a sense of the merge, except for the open-source > deal, which is good for all MESS devs. or for the fact that people will more notice > MESS now (which i still think will not happen, because it misses the "most wanted").
The fact is that for the last 4-5 years or so, MAMEdev has spent the majority of our time and effort on MESS, and we felt it's important that the project reflect that in a more public way. As you know, the supply of emulatable arcade games is extremely finite, but widening the horizons lets us find even more uses for (and fix more bugs in) MAME's core components.
0.163 will include LAN networking for some Sega arcade games by SailorSat, thanks in part to technologies originally developed for MESS. So, you know, if you want to avoid MESS cooties and not have multiplayer Virtua Racing, that's your call ;-)
I have a question: Asteroids Delux in AAE have more intense colors, darker blue (see image below). Is is possible to make MAME look like this ? MAME shows a light blue. http://pages.suddenlink.net/aae/ast1.png Or maybe that's a OpenGL shader effect AAE is using ?
> I have a question: Asteroids Delux in AAE have more intense colors, darker blue (see > image below). Is is possible to make MAME look like this ? MAME shows a light blue. > http://pages.suddenlink.net/aae/ast1.png > Or maybe that's a OpenGL shader effect AAE is using ?
In it's current form, I don't think so. I could be way off base, but it seems like we would need a Vector Monitor simulator to help accurately reproduce a game like Asteroids Deluxe.
I actually picked up an Asteroids Deluxe this weekend because it is just so hard/impossible to duplicate that look on a regular monitor: The 2-way mirror, depth of field, black light, etc. The real deal just looks so awesome IMHO.
> I have a question: Asteroids Delux in AAE have more intense colors, darker blue (see > image below). Is is possible to make MAME look like this ? MAME shows a light blue. > http://pages.suddenlink.net/aae/ast1.png > Or maybe that's a OpenGL shader effect AAE is using ?
thats easy.... unzip the artwork file astdelux.zip open the "default.lay" file with a text-editor
change into: color red="0.3" green="0.6" blue="1.0"
> There were certain technical and emu-political issues with UME. Most of those are now > less interesting or gone entirely.
i would say the same situation as now with MESS . we have emu-political issues here.
> The fact is that for the last 4-5 years or so, MAMEdev has spent the majority of our > time and effort on MESS, and we felt it's important that the project reflect that in > a more public way. As you know, the supply of emulatable arcade games is extremely > finite, but widening the horizons lets us find even more uses for (and fix more bugs > in) MAME's core components.
so the public way is to put MESS into MAME? ...dunno as if the development would stop, if you did not do it this way... i do not think so.
> 0.163 will include LAN networking for some Sega arcade games by SailorSat, thanks in > part to technologies originally developed for MESS. So, you know, if you want to > avoid MESS cooties and not have multiplayer Virtua Racing, that's your call ;-)
as long as 0.163 does not bring again more headaches for frontend developers... i am fine.
I know SailorSat personally, she is very friendly and talented and was the first person who helped me setup my MAME-cab. She brought us softkhz, what do i need to say more. Her 8-player-Daytona setup at the FAO is just awesome.
Thanks. I had to lower brightness and gamma to default values and vector_bloom to 0.8 or vectors are way off. HLSL must be enabled too. I'm using MAME 0.162 with all settings default, except the ones you gave me.
It looks cool. AAE still have some nicer screen effects though. Perhaps I can try to do some tweaking. Thanks for showing me how to do it
> i would say the same situation as now with MESS . > we have emu-political issues here.
Not particularly. Most users and the biggest ROM site in the world have already largely adapted to 0.162.
> so the public way is to put MESS into MAME? ...dunno > as if the development would stop, if you did not do it this way... i do not think so.
We simply made the public presentation of the project match how it's been internally handled since Micko took over and merged the SVN repos. This shouldn't be a surprising or novel development if you were paying any attention at all. Haze had been offering UME binaries for over 3 years, and if you actually read his posts he'd been promising that UME was the future and frontend authors needed to get with the program. And he's probably the most well-known and closely-followed of the active devs - more people comment on his blog than post here.
> as long as 0.163 does not bring again more headaches for frontend developers... i am > fine.
If frontend developers handled 0.162 correctly (relying on a split build is not "correctly", as we will likely be taking away the ability to do that in 0.164), they just need to add SailorSat's new command line switches and they're ready for 0.163
BTW, when you asked me privately for permission to mess with GLSL in MAMEUIFX, I hope that didn't mean you and Jezze are going to stop submitting changes to actual MAME after things went so well in 0.162.
Quote: If frontend developers handled 0.162 correctly (relying on a split build is not "correctly", as we will likely be taking away the ability to do that in 0.164), they just need to add SailorSat's new command line switches and they're ready for 0.163
hum... new command line switches ?
I'm adapting my frontend to handle software lists and MESS machines. It's still in preliminary stages and and I don't want to do it in a rush. I've been using UME as my main MAME emulator for at least 1 year. The more I get familiar with MESS features, more stuff will be implemented in the frontend...
> Not particularly. Most users and the biggest ROM site in the world have already > largely adapted to 0.162.
Thats true, but most users just had no choice, of doing other than that and i dont see the ROMs as a problem here. Users just use/consume, it is a whole other thing, to create/update software that maintain all these roms.
> We simply made the public presentation of the project match how it's been internally > handled since Micko took over and merged the SVN repos. This shouldn't be a > surprising or novel development if you were paying any attention at all. Haze had > been offering UME binaries for over 3 years, and if you actually read his posts he'd > been promising that UME was the future and frontend authors needed to get with the > program. And he's probably the most well-known and closely-followed of the active > devs - more people comment on his blog than post here.
I was not aware of such "popularity" and many others too. In the case of GameEx, there where literally no questions about UME in the forums nor did any moderator or developer noticed any upcoming changes, that huge like in the case of 0162.... i also know that this is no excuse, but i just wanted to show you, how those changes where experienced... nothing more.
> If frontend developers handled 0.162 correctly (relying on a split build is not > "correctly", as we will likely be taking away the ability to do that in 0.164), they > just need to add SailorSat's new command line switches and they're ready for 0.163
Of all the news, this one is the worst. If i understand that correctly, than with version 0164, there will be no more a option to keep MAME and MESS seperated, while compiling... am i right?
> BTW, when you asked me privately for permission to mess with GLSL in MAMEUIFX, I hope > that didn't mean you and Jezze are going to stop submitting changes to actual MAME > after things went so well in 0.162.
Hell no.. off course we will not stop. Each of us have plans. The HLSL changes took months to do, so i assume if there are submits, they wont be that huge like 0162. Also it is summertime (holidays etc) and if the weather is good in germany, you will not sit in the front of a pc .
> I'm adapting my frontend to handle software lists and MESS machines. It's still in > preliminary stages and and I don't want to do it in a rush. I've been using UME as my > main MAME emulator for at least 1 year. > The more I get familiar with MESS features, more stuff will be implemented in the > frontend...
Understood, and that's fine. You're making an effort, and that's all that we ask
The new switches are: -comm_localhost -comm_remotehost
* These two take an IP address or name. comm_localhost defaults to 127.0.0.1 (your local machine, and it should usually be set there) and remotehost is normally 0.0.0.0 (invalid).
-comm_localport -comm_remoteport
* These two take a port number (default is 15112 - can be any unsigned 16-bit integer).
We'll try and document exactly how you get this going after the release. The short version is that you set -comm_remotehost to the next machine in the chain each time, and for the last machine you set it to the first machine to close the ring. Mixing Windows/Mac/Linux should be fine as long as everything can run the driver 100%.
> Of all the news, this one is the worst. If i understand that correctly, than with > version 0164, there will be no more a option to keep MAME and MESS seperated, while > compiling... am i right?
We are instead going to have a more flexible build system where you can do single-driver builds for fast development where it should automatically figure out what files are necessary. For instance, "make SUBTARGET=vaportrx DRIVERS=src/mame/drivers/seattle.c" will make a MAME build that only plays vaportrx. I'm not yet clear if there'll be some way to make this do something like the existing split builds, but in general those aren't popular with the devs and single-driver builds are (they make the compile/link/test cycle much, much faster).
> Hell no.. off course we will not stop. Each of us have plans. The HLSL changes took > months to do, so i assume if there are submits, they wont be that huge like 0162.
> I actually picked up an Asteroids Deluxe this weekend because it is just so hard/impossible to duplicate that look on a regular monitor: The 2-way mirror, depth of field, black light, etc. The real deal just looks so awesome IMHO.
It is. The hovering in mid air of the graphics is bad ass. Same for DOT.
> uuuuh yes.... there will be some love for sure. did you try the suggested settings from my above post? its pretty close to AAE.
I haven't been paying that close attention. For all the games I play, I'm locked around .157....will this work for that?....if not, I may fuss around with it in .163 , just to see.
> > uuuuh yes.... there will be some love for sure. did you try the suggested settings > from my above post? its pretty close to AAE. > > > I haven't been paying that close attention. For all the games I play, I'm locked > around .157....will this work for that?....if not, I may fuss around with it in .163 > , just to see.
I realize this doesn't answer your question about the .157 to .163 difference, but I'm not sure what Uman was posting there. It doesn't come close to AAE as far as being able to see the shots and get the proper "brightness" difference between the ships and the asteroids.
> Moogly Guy... please not... i dont want flamewars with you (its quite the opposite) > and the thread moves way to offtopic. I always said, that it is my opinion, which is > not a law or something and I never said that MESS in general is useless. I just did > not like the merge with MAME. I use MAME in a cab-only setup, therefore i dont need > the tons of computer/handheld emulation, as it is difficult to setup properly and it > does not make much sense in that case. I guess that i am not alone with my setup and > that there are many that use a similar scenario. > > Second: Frontend developers needed much time to support the current MAME and in my > case, i would rather see Tom Speirs going ahead for the long awaited GameEX > Evolution, instead of investing time for a MAME/MESS merge, that in my opinion is > questionable. I especially dislike the force, how this merge was done. > > Third: MESS is becoming more interesting, as it uses the same shader-system as MAME. > That is a big bonus comparing to other existing emulators and the many consoles that > MESS unites under one roof. This is still no reason to rant on Frontends like > Retroarch, that are following the same concept, with even better shaders (considering > also the fact, how many plattforms it supports) or describing better emulators like > ParaJVE for Vectrex as "rotten", because the development is in a halt. Considering > that ParaJVE use JAVA and works till today without any flaws (and will work for years > to come, for sure) and was used by the homebrew scene for decades to create even new > games. > > Off course the emulationworld is not only about SEGA, NES, SNES, PS1 or Commodore, > but those are the most wanted and interesting ones. I mean nobody would care about > MAME if it would mainly consist of fruit and casino games . > > If you find this merge so great, why was UME in the past not always accepted from the > MAME devs. ? > I remember bloody discussions on initial-release of UME. > > Summarizing this facts, i do not see a sense of the merge, except for the open-source > deal, which is good for all MESS devs. or for the fact that people will more notice > MESS now (which i still think will not happen, because it misses the "most wanted"). > > Last but not least, coming back on-topic: > > > Fascinating. Finally someone explained why. I actually like the image quality of > AAE > > better - it's crisper, and the glow is more translucent - but MAME has full > > controller support, etc, and I'm optimistic the above conditions will be satisfied > in > > time. > > uuuuh yes.... there will be some love for sure. > did you try the suggested settings from my above post? its pretty close to AAE.
Funny thing is that they doesn't want to use UME name. Still MAME which doesn't make sense at all. MAME is for arcade and MESS for home gaming, computers or what ever that doesn't have anything to do with arcade. If they read on the their MAME page it pointing out this. lol
"What is MAME
MAME stands for Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. When used in conjunction with images of the original arcade game's ROM and disk data, MAME attempts to reproduce that game as faithfully as possible on a more modern general-purpose computer. MAME can currently emulate several thousand different classic arcade video games from the late 1970s through the modern era."
Which they didn't change. Seem like they broken their own rule. Until then it still Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator with MESS (Multi Emulator Super System) lol
You can still use MAME to play arcade games only. It's up to frontends with the help of external files (aka AntoPISA's category_home.ini) to filter out all (or just tag) non-arcade machines, and apply proper games filters.
My frontend Emu Loader will do exactly that. Use category_home.ini to separate arcade machines from MESS machines, and I will implement a new "Machines" filter to show only arcade, only non-arcade machines and even games from software lists.
The old MAME "arcade only" builds works exactly the same as the new MAME, but with access to video games and computer games.
I wish someone with experience with emulation coding would update AAE and fix a few bugs concerning initialization/deinitialization of the OpenGL mode, specially when exiting the emulator, which doesn't restore previous Windows screen settings... messing up with Windows color settings, gamma, color and brightness.
I'm not even asking for bug fixes related to emulation, graphics or sound. AAE is an awesome emulator.
> I haven't been paying that close attention. For all the games I play, I'm locked > around .157....will this work for that?....if not, I may fuss around with it in .163 > , just to see.
No it won't work for 0.157 because all of Jezze's commits went into 0.162 so it's best to just use the latest version.
> I like everything about the HLSL support in current (162) MAME, except for one > critical thing I miss from AAE: > > ** The brightness of shots from your ship and the opponent saucers. ** > > AAE fakes this pretty well, but I can't seem to configure MAME to approach it. AAE > was likely overdone, but I can't get anywhere near it. > > With shots being a 1x1 pixel (with beam width 1) they're nearly invisible. There's > also no halo or brightness difference. > > Am I chasing a setting that doesn't exist? Is there code in the MAME source base now > to special case these "bright" objects and do HDR rendering? > > Thanks much, > Dave
LCD is still weakass compared to CRT no matter what overlay, you won't get the authentic retro look on a LCD no matter what you do, LCD is only better for browsing, it is superior in 1 way to CRT, the resolution.
There is no substitute for CRT and vector, if anyone knows of a LCD or TLC that has comparable color and lighting and geometry and no ghosting then let me know, otherwise buy old hardware to play your games on.
> LCD is still weakass compared to CRT no matter what overlay, you won't get the > authentic retro look on a LCD no matter what you do, LCD is only better for browsing, > it is superior in 1 way to CRT, the resolution. > > There is no substitute for CRT and vector, if anyone knows of a LCD or TLC that has > comparable color and lighting and geometry and no ghosting then let me know, > otherwise buy old hardware to play your games on.
How's it going, Bart? I don't see any posts about how Model 3 is the best platform ever yet. You're slipping, bro.
> I wish someone with experience with emulation coding would update AAE and fix a few bugs concerning initialization/deinitialization of the OpenGL mode, specially when exiting the emulator, which doesn't restore previous Windows screen settings... messing up with Windows color settings, gamma, color and brightness.
I never had any o that.... Works like any emulator I've used: set main settings to desktop, and goes in an out the same way.
> > I haven't been paying that close attention. For all the games I play, I'm locked around .157....will this work for that?....if not, I may fuss around with it in .163 , just to see.
> No it won't work for 0.157 because all of Jezze's commits went into 0.162 so it's best to just use the latest version.
Oh, right. Well, I don't need full frame rate to see the goodness.
> > I wish someone with experience with emulation coding would update AAE and fix a few bugs concerning initialization/deinitialization of the OpenGL mode, specially when exiting the emulator, which doesn't restore previous Windows screen settings... messing up with Windows color settings, gamma, color and brightness. > > > I never had any o that.... Works like any emulator I've used: set main settings to desktop, and goes in an out the same way.
Sadly its true what he said.... at least the gamma settings are NOT reverted to their default, if exiting AAE. I always got a darker desktop or OS when i fiddle with the gamma settings of AAE.
> > > I haven't been paying that close attention. For all the games I play, I'm locked > around .157....will this work for that?....if not, I may fuss around with it in .163 > , just to see. > > > > No it won't work for 0.157 because all of Jezze's commits went into 0.162 so it's > best to just use the latest version. > > > Oh, right. Well, I don't need full frame rate to see the goodness.
It will still not work, the changes to HLSL are too deep and many settings prior version 0162 dont look the same anymore, because most parameters have finer adjustments now.
> > > I wish someone with experience with emulation coding would update AAE and fix a > few bugs concerning initialization/deinitialization of the OpenGL mode, specially > when exiting the emulator, which doesn't restore previous Windows screen settings... > messing up with Windows color settings, gamma, color and brightness. > > > > > > I never had any o that.... Works like any emulator I've used: set main settings to > desktop, and goes in an out the same way. > > Sadly its true what he said.... at least the gamma settings are NOT reverted to their > default, if exiting AAE. I always got a darker desktop or OS when i fiddle with the > gamma settings of AAE. > > > > > I haven't been paying that close attention. For all the games I play, I'm > locked > > around .157....will this work for that?....if not, I may fuss around with it in > .163 > > , just to see. > > > > > > > No it won't work for 0.157 because all of Jezze's commits went into 0.162 so it's > > best to just use the latest version. > > > > > > Oh, right. Well, I don't need full frame rate to see the goodness. > > It will still not work, the changes to HLSL are too deep and many settings prior > version 0162 dont look the same anymore, because most parameters have finer > adjustments now.
Let my LCD choose instead. You guys taken it way too graphics.
> It will still not work, the changes to HLSL are too deep and many settings prior version 0162 dont look the same anymore, because most parameters have finer adjustments now.
No, Scooby (HTML auto-corrects s to S...immortal). My framerate would/will suffer if I try .162...but I'll still be able to see the graphics difference.
Turn up the Screen Brightness anywhere from 1.260 to 1.300 (washing the colors effect) and then lower the Screen Gamma to 0.100. Still got no blurry. Use the ini settings above.
As you can see. Lines aren't fully color in. White is showing.
If you want the flickering effect then turn the Vector Flicker to 100.00 or what ever you like it at. Make sure you turn down the Screen Brightness at 1.200 or what ever.
EVERY colored vector-game has a shadowmask. only black/white vector-games dont have.
Even your Wiki says that:
Color displays
Some vector monitors are capable of displaying multiple colors, using either a typical shadow mask RGB CRT, or two phosphor layers (so-called "penetration color").
Atari used the term Color Quadrascan to describe the shadow mask version when used in their video game arcades.
In the penetration tubes, by controlling the strength of the electron beam, electrons could be made to reach (and illuminate) either or both phosphor layers, typically producing a choice of green, orange, or red.
Tektronix made color oscilloscopes for a few years using penetration CRTs, but they apparently weren't in great demand.
> EVERY colored vector-game has a shadowmask. only black/white vector-games dont have. > > Even your Wiki says that: > > Color displays > > Some vector monitors are capable of displaying multiple colors, using either a > typical shadow mask RGB CRT, or two phosphor layers (so-called "penetration color"). > > Atari used the term Color Quadrascan to describe the shadow mask version when used in > their video game arcades. > > In the penetration tubes, by controlling the strength of the electron beam, electrons > could be made to reach (and illuminate) either or both phosphor layers, typically > producing a choice of green, orange, or red. > > Tektronix made color oscilloscopes for a few years using penetration CRTs, but they > apparently weren't in great demand.
Oh ok. I see it now. You can't do curves and that on MAME yet on these games. Probably will never happen.
> > Oh ok. I see it now. You can't do curves and that on MAME yet on these games. > > Probably will never happen. > > I dont know what you mean with "curves", but if it is the curvature/fisheye effect, > we will not wait that long.... that is a promise .
I think he means the curves on the edges of the tiny vector segments that make up each line...like in the letters.
On another note, that glow is nice. I still can't get glow close to that like I used to with .161.
> then show us some evidence/comparison > show us screenshots with 0161. my guess is, you didnt play much with the options > available.
Yes, I didn't muck with settings much as I liked the defaults. Here is a shot of tempest with the default HLSL and 1.2 Beam Width. I can't get the glow to look this nice on .162 or .163. And it looked this nice on all the vector games without making any individual changes per game.
> > Am I chasing a setting that doesn't exist? Is there code in the MAME source base > now > > to special case these "bright" objects and do HDR rendering? > > You're chasing a concept that doesn't exist in MAME. Vector games had a brightness > control that the game could adjust per vector drawn, and MAME respects that. But > Asteroids uses a trick to get the super-bright shots: they draw the shot multiple > times in a row at max brightness, which gives a brighter shot than the CRT is > normally capable of showing. MAME currently lacks two things necessary to make this > work: HDR rendering, and tracking the amount of time each line/dot is being drawn in > each frame.
I had added Asteroids' shot thickness/appearance with the HLSL vector.ini default to my recent long list of things tweak, then ran into this post by Arbee.
Is this still the case with MAME or have there been any changes in the last 3 years that might enable the simulation of the vector graphics for the ship's missile to look more like the original machine? Example video here.
No, we don't have HDR rendering yet. If I'm ever blessed to have an HDR monitor, I might implement it. Even so, there are other issues that would require changes in how MAME handles vector games in order to get the information to the graphics driver to simulate correctly. At this time, we can't track what gets drawn when.
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HLSL working, but what about shot brightness vs. AAE
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. Just didnt like the merge of MAME and MESS and was to lazy to compile a "arcade" version of 0162. This should look exactly the same on 0162.
