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gamerfan
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Most Brutally Tough 80’s Arcade Games
#354124 - 05/10/16 09:34 PM


Interesting story on the most brutal arcade games

http://limelightdaily.com/23-brutally-tough-80s-arcade-games/



MooglyGuy
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The most shitty clickbait bullshit website new [Re: gamerfan]
#354129 - 05/10/16 10:24 PM


> Interesting story on the most brutal arcade games
>
> http://limelightdaily.com/23-brutally-tough-80s-arcade-games/

Just as a heads-up to everyone else, unless you're the sort of person who likes 50% of your browser's visible area being taken up by links to other clickbait "articles" (more like "ads" that don't get blocked), or unless you're the sort of the person who likes the new trend of websites separating "The most X ever!!1!!" articles into separate, non-dynamically-loading pages in order to wring every last cent of skeevy ad revenue from their users, you'd do well to steer completely clear of this "article".



nutte
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Re: The most shitty clickbait bullshit website new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#354145 - 05/11/16 05:31 AM


> > Interesting story on the most brutal arcade games
> >
> > http://limelightdaily.com/23-brutally-tough-80s-arcade-games/
>
> Just as a heads-up to everyone else, unless you're the sort of person who likes 50%
> of your browser's visible area being taken up by links to other clickbait "articles"
> (more like "ads" that don't get blocked), or unless you're the sort of the person who
> likes the new trend of websites separating "The most X ever!!1!!" articles into
> separate, non-dynamically-loading pages in order to wring every last cent of skeevy
> ad revenue from their users, you'd do well to steer completely clear of this
> "article".



Agree, just horrible...
Even if I like the 10% content I just don't want to support such trash.



CTOJAH
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Re: Most Brutally Tough 80’s Arcade Games new [Re: gamerfan]
#354160 - 05/11/16 05:16 PM


How is this related to MAME News ???



Traso
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That's just.....retarded. new [Re: gamerfan]
#354181 - 05/12/16 08:15 AM


Carnival he heard was tough. But he played it a few times. He has a...fuck-stretched image of Kangaroo....but he has to find this game. Where the fuck did this dude get the images from?...where did he get the game names from? Guy can't even use the correct Stephen for Hawking.

Arcades that had an adult population and allowed smoking might be trashy. The only smoking one in town being adults-only after seven or eight, and it wasn't trashy. Pizza joints/restaurants/bowling alleys allowed smoking, but they were well-kept here. I think theatres did not allow smoking even in the lobby, here, by the 80s.



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Vaughan
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Re: The most shitty clickbait bullshit website new [Re: MooglyGuy]
#354185 - 05/12/16 12:04 PM


If you have a suitably kitted out browser then you see no ads on the page at all.

Here's what I see:

screen

Which, of course, doesn't in any way excuse mistakes in the article itself.



R. Belmont
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: Traso]
#354193 - 05/12/16 04:48 PM


> Arcades that had an adult population and allowed smoking might be trashy. The only
> smoking one in town being adults-only after seven or eight, and it wasn't trashy.

Everything allowed smoking in the 80s. It's arguably the most startling thing about popping Ghostbusters into your Blu-ray: everyone smokes, everywhere, all the time. Now it's mostly seen as a scheme for wayward artists to get extra break time.

And yes, arcades, even in malls, were dark and occasionally scary. That's a large part of the mythos, even if some people overstate it a bit.



B2K24
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: R. Belmont]
#354196 - 05/12/16 05:39 PM


> Everything allowed smoking in the 80s. It's arguably the most startling thing about
> popping Ghostbusters into your Blu-ray: everyone smokes, everywhere, all the time.
> Now it's mostly seen as a scheme for wayward artists to get extra break time.
>
> And yes, arcades, even in malls, were dark and occasionally scary. That's a large
> part of the mythos, even if some people overstate it a bit.

This is true. I still remember High Schools that allowed the students to smoke outside in the early 90's



anikom15
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: R. Belmont]
#354199 - 05/12/16 07:50 PM


Yeah sure there were some urban arcades that were rough stuff, but there was also fucking Chuck E. Cheese's with ten-year olds and ten-year old games. These were the most common 'arcades' in the suburbs of Orange County, where I grew up. The only other place you'd find them were laundromats, liquor stores, and pizza parlors. The stereotypical arcades were found in LA and boardwalks. The only place I remember having new games was a place called Camelot Golfland (if you like miniature golf I recommend, it still exists and is probably the cleanest of its kind). If you were lucky you had a Disneyland pass and could go the arcade in Tomorrowland (which is not dark and doesn't have any smoking), but then I'm thinking 90's now so whatever.

By the way, 80's games aren't even hard. What's the hardest? Gradius? I can beat that game in like five seconds. The hardest game from the 80's has to be Super Mario Bros. 2 and that's not an arcade game >.>



Jason
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: anikom15]
#354201 - 05/12/16 09:15 PM


If you grew up in the 80's and were a teen that hung out in arcades, 80's arcade games weren't easy either. Some were, yes, but many were not. How many quarters did you pump into your favorite games? How many times did you run out of quarters and had to walk away from a game when you thought you were "that close" to getting passed a certain point? Those were the days. By today's standards, many are easy but back then you didn't have emulators and the internet to help you through them.



anikom15
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: Jason]
#354203 - 05/12/16 10:04 PM


No it was still easy without free play. The trick is watching other people play. Don't just blow through all your quarters.



Vaughan
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: anikom15]
#354208 - 05/12/16 11:38 PM


Difficulty is largely dependent upon how good a player you were, and what DIP Switches had been used. Basically I'm not very good at any of them, so find the likes of Tapper difficult enough - I can do three or levels, but that's it.

I used to love watching people playing Defender. If you found someone who was good, it was really a sight to behold. In this day and age of Mame and controllers, I'm still utterly horrible at the game.



Shoegazr
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: anikom15]
#354210 - 05/13/16 01:22 AM


> By the way, 80's games aren't even hard. What's the hardest? Gradius? I can beat that
> game in like five seconds. The hardest game from the 80's has to be Super Mario Bros.
> 2 and that's not an arcade game >.>

Ok, you're either joking or trolling? What era of games are you comparing to the 80s to come up with that conclusion?

Having 1CC'ed several modern danmaku "bullet hell" shmups, I can tell you that Defender/Stargate were tough as nails especially given their control scheme on an actual arcade panel. However if you lack a setup like that, give Super Zaxxon a test drive.



Comboman
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: R. Belmont]
#354211 - 05/13/16 01:25 AM


> And yes, arcades, even in malls, were dark and occasionally scary. That's a large
> part of the mythos, even if some people overstate it a bit.

The most popular arcade when I was growing up was like that. The front near the entrance was all video games but the back was dark, full of pinballs and older teenagers smoking (and according to rumors, selling pot). Needless to say, my mom told me to stay in the front section. In retrospect, I'm surprised she let me go in at all, but then again kids were a lot more independent in those days.



krick
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: B2K24]
#354212 - 05/13/16 02:22 AM


> This is true. I still remember High Schools that allowed the students to smoke
> outside in the early 90's

I graduated in 1988. We had a "smoking corral" where students smoked before school, after lunch, and after school. A lot of the teachers smoked there too, but usually in a clump with other teachers. I really don't understand how they could justify it when none of the students were old enough to purchase cigarettes.



GroovyMAME support forum on BYOAC



anikom15
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: Shoegazr]
#354213 - 05/13/16 03:44 AM


90's. Games like Mega Man X, Sonic the Hedgehog 2, and Super Star Wars. Not only are these games longer, but you have to actually be friends with those obsessive gamers to watch and learn because you can't just watch them at an arcade, and there was no YouTube.

The Neo Geo games are all pretty hard and that was the 90's, too, esp. the Art of Fighting games. Those games are impossible.



joey35car
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: Shoegazr]
#354214 - 05/13/16 03:56 AM


> > By the way, 80's games aren't even hard. What's the hardest? Gradius? I can beat
> that
> > game in like five seconds. The hardest game from the 80's has to be Super Mario
> Bros.
> > 2 and that's not an arcade game >.>
>

Bet he couldn't even get past the first stage of bagman.



Shoegazr
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: anikom15]
#354233 - 05/13/16 11:50 PM


> 90's. Games like Mega Man X, Sonic the Hedgehog 2, and Super Star Wars. Not only are
> these games longer, but you have to actually be friends with those obsessive gamers
> to watch and learn because you can't just watch them at an arcade, and there was no
> YouTube.
>
> The Neo Geo games are all pretty hard and that was the 90's, too, esp. the Art of
> Fighting games. Those games are impossible.

Ah, well I'll respectfully disagree but then I guess not everyone is going to feel challenge the same way. In my personal opinion, Mega Man/NES is a tougher game than X, and having beating Sonic 2 I didn't see it as all that hard. Also I don't believe game length is a good metric on which to base difficulty - by that token, games like GTA San Andreas would be counted among the most difficult, but as I'm sure you'd agree it's far from that. Actually, I think it's better to look at difficulty in almost the opposite angle - how FAST does it take for Bad Things to happen to you (for example, lose a life, or see the "Game Over" screen). By that account I still stand by games like Super Zaxxon because yeah, they tend to happen pretty quickly.

However, I DO agree with you on some of those 90s fighters - they are indeed tough, especially some of the KOF bosses as I recall.



Master O
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: Shoegazr]
#354234 - 05/14/16 01:16 AM


> However, I DO agree with you on some of those 90s fighters - they are indeed tough,
> especially some of the KOF bosses as I recall.


Quote:


http://snk.wikia.com/wiki/SNK_Boss_Syndrome

SNK Boss Syndrome is an unofficial term to describe the infamously high difficulty of SNK fighting game bosses.

Traits

The syndrome manifests by an overall weakness that is made up for by unfair advantages. There are several recognizable traits that can be linked to a small number of core symptoms typically stemming from poor programming.

Arbitrary advantages over playable characters in the game

attacks with unreasonable damage, priority, speed, range or recovery
greater defense than average
immunity to chip damage
unavoidable moves that hit the player regardless of their position, and can only be blocked

Disregard for established gameplay rules

no dizzy state when featured in the game
infinite or costless super special moves
unblockable moves

Absence of reaction time, command input and "human error"

ability to read the inputs of a human player and/or appropriately reacting to the player's inputs at the same time as (or even before) the player's own character does
inhuman consistency in achieving maneuvers that require precise timing or difficult commands
never falling for a command counter unless initiated during the start up of the boss's attack
ability to follow up every hit with a combo on reaction regardless of the frame window of the first hit
ability to execute special and super special moves without inputting a command
ability to do so on reaction
ability to counter a fast attack with a faster super move on reaction

This syndrome is often looked down upon as a lazy way of adding difficulty, by putting unfair disadvantages in the way of the player instead of taking the time to design a genuinely challenging AI. SNK bosses typically suffer from various programming flaws as well, leading to exploits and patterns that are most often the easiest way to defeat a boss.

Although named after SNK, the syndrome can be found in many other fighting games, and is not exclusive to bosses; higher difficulty settings are likely to have the AI engage in some degree of this behavior







Quote:


http://www.giantbomb.com/snk-boss-syndrome/3015-2788/

Defeating a boss with the syndrome

Even though bosses with SNK Boss Syndrome may seem impossible, there are indeed ways to beat them. However, there are generally only two ways to accomplish this:

Bait an incorrect reaction from the AI. As mentioned above, bosses react to the player's input, but it is impossible to program a proper reaction to every move in the game. Therefore, it is the player's job to find an attack that causes the AI to react incorrectly, and spam that attack. Often times, this solution is absurdly simple.
Time Over. If you have dealt a sufficient amount of damage, perhaps the smartest thing to do is turtle until the round is over. However, most bosses are programmed to anticipate this strategy, and will resort to throws if neccesary.





"Note to Noobs:

We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.

C.D.~"



Shoegazr
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: Master O]
#354236 - 05/14/16 04:14 AM


> http://snk.wikia.com/wiki/SNK_Boss_Syndrome

Hah, cool link. I knew they were difficult but had no idea there was an actual entry dedicated to them. You know you're in trouble when turtling out a round is considered a good strategy.



lharms
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: anikom15]
#354239 - 05/14/16 07:25 AM


> No it was still easy without free play. The trick is watching other people play.
> Don't just blow through all your quarters.

Most games were hard and had the settings maxed out a bit. That is until the quarter flow slowed down. Then the operators would loosen up the game a bit to draw in people to play it at all.

99.9% of these games are designed to eat your quarter fast (typically in 1-5 mins). But not too fast or you dont drop another coin. Just enough to give you that feeling 'your good at it'. But not good enough to drop a quarter and marathon play it for 6 hours on one quarter.

If you rock into a newer arcade you will notice most of them are set on fairly easy settings and to free play. The economics of video arcades do not exist anymore. They make most of the money on beer and food and 'wrist bands' or a bucket of tokens. Back in the day most operators wanted it to ROI in a max of 3 months. ROI was a very fine line of 'this game is too hard' (no one plays except the marathon runners) to 'I am really good at it just one more quarter' (everyone tries to play but are actually rubbish at the game). Basically if it was too easy the operators would spin them out and get rid of them. The ones that were hard enough but people kept dropping coins into lasted. Take something like the original gauntlet. The game is actually fairly simple to play. But you could *easy* go thru 2-3 bucks playing it. You had the occasional mythical guy who figured out how to play as warrior and could play all the levels on one quarter. Those people are rare.

If you truly think 'these games are easy'. Think again. Then I challenge you to fire up smashtv v8. I will even let you set the game to easy and 5 lives. Heck you can even go watch a bunch of vids on youtube. Now with 1 quarter drop make it to the pleasuredome. I am fairly good at the game and I am usually lucky to make it the mid second wave. Consider that game is little more than a remake of robotron. Games like SmashTV were front and center in most arcades that had them right next to street fighter, mortal kombat, and T2. There was a reason for that. They were challenging but not too sadistic (like say TMNT for the NES).

Now I will give you some of the older games could be 'gamed'. If you knew the pattern. But learning that pattern was usually a process of *many* quarters. You get a game with a decent RNG and it didnt matter. The earlier games didnt have that. So you could pull that off to some extent. But usually by the time people figured out the patterns the game was on its way out anyway. As long plays equaled 'sell it off and put something else new in'.



Vaughan
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: lharms]
#354240 - 05/14/16 12:51 PM


This thread makes me feel like a real chump.

Hell, Space invaders is difficult for me, and I know there's a method to beat it which I somehow fail to execute. I even created a bezel which taught you the patterns to Pacman, but I'll be damned if I can get very far in that even with the help.

In truth, there isn't a single arcade title between 78 and the 90's I have mastered - and I'm talking about playing back in the day AND on the assisted (max no. of players, autofire etc.) world of Mame.

I have gotten better at games by playing and playing and playing them - but I've not mastered one yet. As mentioned earlier, I saw some fantastic players back in the day, especially at the likes of Defender, but I was never close to be among their ranks.

As Lharms wrote - the games were designed not to be beat. That didn't stop some of them failing, but it did ensure the vast majority of players never would, imo.



Traso
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Must've been special here or something.... new [Re: krick]
#354247 - 05/14/16 10:04 PM


Cos the monitors at our school would leave campus to chase down kids ditching, AND bust them for smoking. You got detention for smoking! This was the late 80s.



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Traso
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: joey35car]
#354248 - 05/14/16 10:06 PM


I still say Defender and Robotron are (if not the hardest, two of) the hardest games of the 80s. I played Defender once or twice, and gave it up. Same for Robo. Since MAME, I've broken 40k in Defender, and gotten millions in Robo......



> Bet he couldn't even get past the first stage of bagman.


Bagman is a, rare for the time, long-strategy game. I still haven't played it enough to figure it out.

Before getting into MAME in '03, I played games most when we went to Chuck E. Cheese every weekend when I was in junior high. The best I got at a game, that I remember, was Gyruss at 72k. I actually had a bunch of grown-ups around me cheering me on. Around the same year, a similar thing happened with Xevious at the local convenience store, seventy-something thousand. The only person with me there was the store clerk. I was late to school that day, of course.



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Traso
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Re: That's just.....retarded. new [Re: R. Belmont]
#354249 - 05/14/16 10:10 PM


> And yes, arcades, even in malls, were dark and occasionally scary. That's a large part of the mythos, even if some people overstate it a bit.


Not here. You could smoke in the mall, but not any of the stores - except the smoke shop, hah. You could smoke in any restaurant, but not the arcade area. None of the arcades allowed smoking - especially the golf castle, where the only places you could smoke were out front, or in the back patio area.

In '85, they passed no-smoking in business offices.



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