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Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
#358482 - 09/09/16 05:03 PM
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| Comboman |
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Can't think of a good title
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: Robbbert]
#358498 - 09/09/16 11:47 PM
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> We are trying out extending the maximum length of parent rom sets from 8 to 16
> characters. Same applies to software-list parent items.
>
> However, so far it looks good, and will most likely become part of 0.178 .
>
Nice. I always wondered why MAME stuck with MSDOS compatible filenames, especially since MAME hasn't supported MSDOS since 0.105. Is there a reason to limit it to 16 rather than 256 (or whatever the limit is for modern operating systems)? What about spaces and case sensitivity?
> This doesn't mean a rash of renames, more likely one or two future sets may have
> longer names than usual.
>
Too bad. It would be nice to have (for example) Lock_n_Chase.zip instead of lnc.zip. What about aliases so people can use either the old rom names or new descriptive ones?
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Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: Comboman]
#358499 - 09/10/16 12:09 AM
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> > We are trying out extending the maximum length of parent rom sets from 8 to 16
> > characters. Same applies to software-list parent items.
> >
> > However, so far it looks good, and will most likely become part of 0.178 .
> >
>
> Nice. I always wondered why MAME stuck with MSDOS compatible filenames, especially
> since MAME hasn't supported MSDOS since 0.105. Is there a reason to limit it to 16
> rather than 256 (or whatever the limit is for modern operating systems)? What about
> spaces and case sensitivity?
This are to be kept forever case insensitive (lowercase is usually desired) as I think all input is converted to a particular case for parsing anyway. Do you want really want to potentially type a 255 character setname in order to issue a command line to run a machine or an image? I don't think anyone does. At 16 characters, it is something that can be identified better, allow for more full game names (less cryptic abbreviations for long titles) and still be typed quickly. Remember, we've had 16 character clone setnames in service for more than 7 years now.
> > This doesn't mean a rash of renames, more likely one or two future sets may have
> > longer names than usual.
> >
>
> Too bad. It would be nice to have (for example) Lock_n_Chase.zip instead of lnc.zip.
> What about aliases so people can use either the old rom names or new descriptive
> ones?
As was mentioned there is no big push to convert setnames over in large quantities. Some games simply don't need it and are universally known by their 8 character setnames (example "mslug" for "metalslug", "dkong" for "donkeykong").. and we probably won't be changing anything like those soon or at all).
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: Comboman]
#358500 - 09/10/16 12:39 AM
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> > We are trying out extending the maximum length of parent rom sets from 8 to 16
> > characters. Same applies to software-list parent items.
> >
> > However, so far it looks good, and will most likely become part of 0.178 .
> >
>
> Nice. I always wondered why MAME stuck with MSDOS compatible filenames, especially
> since MAME hasn't supported MSDOS since 0.105. Is there a reason to limit it to 16
> rather than 256 (or whatever the limit is for modern operating systems)? What about
> spaces and case sensitivity?
>
> > This doesn't mean a rash of renames, more likely one or two future sets may have
> > longer names than usual.
> >
>
> Too bad. It would be nice to have (for example) Lock_n_Chase.zip instead of lnc.zip.
> What about aliases so people can use either the old rom names or new descriptive
> ones?
the shortnames exist to be typed quickly, think of them as more like 'keyboard shortcuts'. "lock_n_chase" is a lot more to type than "lnc"
the idea is that they're short and memorable, so they make sets easy to refer to in conversation too.
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: Robbbert]
#358502 - 09/10/16 01:14 AM
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No problemo.
My frontend Emu Loader never had length limitations when it comes to set names, or filenames.
But the names will still be ANSI type, right ? (no Unicode names).
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Ciro Alfredo Consentino
home: http://emuloader.mameworld.info
e-mail: ciroconsentino@gmail.com
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: Haze]
#358504 - 09/10/16 01:17 AM
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Is there any plan to make game names distinct from driver names?
You can make game-specific ini files but if the driver name is the same as one of the games in the driver, it doesn't work because it's treated as a driver-specific ini file and all games in the driver are affected.
For example: galaga.cpp and galaga.ini
I think it would have to be some kind of driver-specific prefix on the driver name followed by maybe an underscore or two. I guess they could even START with an underscore, but I'm sure some OS or build tool might have a problem with that.
_galaga.cpp
d_galaga.cpp
d__galaga.cpp
dr_galaga.cpp
drv_galaga.cpp
driver_galaga.cpp
mame_galaga.cpp
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GroovyMAME support forum on BYOAC
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#358506 - 09/10/16 01:32 AM
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> No problemo.
> My frontend Emu Loader never had length limitations when it comes to set names, or
> filenames.
> But the names will still be ANSI type, right ? (no Unicode names).
If I have anything to do with it, set names will be restricted to a-z, 0-9 and _ to make them easy to type and not get munged by shells
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: krick]
#358508 - 09/10/16 01:52 AM
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> Is there any plan to make game names distinct from driver names?
>
> You can make game-specific ini files but if the driver name is the same as one of the
> games in the driver, it doesn't work because it's treated as a driver-specific ini
> file and all games in the driver are affected.
>
> For example: galaga.cpp and galaga.ini
>
> I think it would have to be some kind of driver-specific prefix on the driver name
> followed by maybe an underscore or two. I guess they could even START with an
> underscore, but I'm sure some OS or build tool might have a problem with that.
>
> _galaga.cpp
> d_galaga.cpp
> d__galaga.cpp
> dr_galaga.cpp
> drv_galaga.cpp
> driver_galaga.cpp
> mame_galaga.cpp
It would probably make more sense to check for driver_galaga.ini or similar with the gamename.ini ones applying to single games only. Conflicts are quite common because typically drivers are named after the first game that was supported in the driver (or the earliest game on the hardware)
Renaming the actual driver files makes no sense.
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: Haze]
#358509 - 09/10/16 02:59 AM
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What about separating them in different folders ?
- if the file is in the inidir\ (root), it's the game settings file
mame_inidir\galaga.ini (game settings)
- if the file is in the \source\ sub-folder, it's the driver settings file
mame_inidir\source\galaga.ini (driver settings)
MAME already supports placing driver settings into a "source\" sub-folder anyway... why not making this a default MAME behavior ?
... if .ini file is not found in the inidir\driver\ sub-folder, then it's automatically considered a game settings file.
I for one, think this is the best solution for this issue... instead of creating a a new sourceini_directory entry in mame.ini just for drivers.
Currently, you can place driver ini files either in the ini_dir root folder or in ini_dir\source\ sub-folder. MAME supports both paths.
... just my two cents
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Ciro Alfredo Consentino
home: http://emuloader.mameworld.info
e-mail: ciroconsentino@gmail.com
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: Haze]
#358510 - 09/10/16 03:28 AM
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> It would probably make more sense to check for driver_galaga.ini or similar with the
> gamename.ini ones applying to single games only.
That does make more sense.
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GroovyMAME support forum on BYOAC
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#358511 - 09/10/16 03:46 AM
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> What about separating them in different folders ?
>
> - if the file is in the inidir\ (root), it's the game settings file
> mame_inidir\galaga.ini (game settings)
>
> - if the file is in the \source\ sub-folder, it's the driver settings file
> mame_inidir\source\galaga.ini (driver settings)
>
I agree. This is a better idea.
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GroovyMAME support forum on BYOAC
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#358515 - 09/10/16 08:25 AM
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since the xml encoding (-listxml output) is utf-8, and zip/7z/modern filesystems support it, you should be able to handle utf-8 names.
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: Tafoid]
#358517 - 09/10/16 11:03 AM
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> At 16 characters, it is something that can be identified better, allow for more full game names (less cryptic abbreviations for long titles) and still be typed quickly.
Isn't it possible to limit shortnames to 8 chars (far easier to remember) with the possibility to have an also easy to remember prefix (nvs_ , pc10_ , mt_ , mp_ , m4_ , sc4_ or whatever) ?
 Steph from The Ultimate Patchers 
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: krick]
#358519 - 09/10/16 01:21 PM
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I just realized somthing this morning... there's no need to change MAME source for this. MAME already works as intended.
First, MAME searches for the driver .ini file in the "source\" sub-folder. If not found, then it searches the driver .ini in the ini_path root.
Taking the example for the galaga driver name and galaga game name.
If you place the driver .ini in ini_path\source\galaga.ini, MAME will recognize that as the driver file.
If you also have a ini_path\galaga.ini, MAME will recognize that as the game .ini.
Other games in the galaga driver will not use this file, only the one from the \source\ sub-folder...
Again, no change is necessary. All you need to remember is to place ALL your driver .ini files in the ini_path\source\ sub-folder.
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Ciro Alfredo Consentino
home: http://emuloader.mameworld.info
e-mail: ciroconsentino@gmail.com
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: stephh]
#358520 - 09/10/16 01:27 PM
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> > At 16 characters, it is something that can be identified better, allow for more
> full game names (less cryptic abbreviations for long titles) and still be typed
> quickly.
>
> Isn't it possible to limit shortnames to 8 chars (far easier to remember) with the
> possibility to have an also easy to remember prefix (nvs_ , pc10_ , mt_ , mp_ , m4_ ,
> sc4_ or whatever) ?
No. Because it's friggin' not easy to remember which letters are dropped in one particular variant of Mr Driller, for instance. 16 is not a target, just breathing room.
OG.
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| Comboman |
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Can't think of a good title
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Reged: 12/30/12
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: Tafoid]
#358540 - 09/11/16 04:11 PM
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> This are to be kept forever case insensitive (lowercase is usually desired) as I
> think all input is converted to a particular case for parsing anyway. Do you want
> really want to potentially type a 255 character setname in order to issue a command
> line to run a machine or an image? I don't think anyone does. At 16 characters, it is
> something that can be identified better, allow for more full game names (less cryptic
> abbreviations for long titles) and still be typed quickly. Remember, we've had 16
> character clone setnames in service for more than 7 years now.
>
I was not thinking of longer names for typing on the command line (thus my alias suggestion allowing both long and short names). Where longer names would come in handy is in manual file management. For example, a new release of MAME borks the settings on a particular machine and I have to look through a folder with hundreds of config files trying to find the right one to delete.
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: Roman]
#358547 - 09/11/16 08:58 PM
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ROM names are OK with my frontend. But know that my frontend is coded with an ancient compiler, Delphi 7, and it doesn't support Unicode.
But I'm talking about game names (galaga, elevator, mslug, gooniesb, etc). If MAME devs start using game names in Russian or Chinese languages, how will we type those names with our US keyboards ?
I don't have a keyboard with Russian or Chinese letters... that is what I meant.
I'm doing some magic to support Unicode game titles and other tricks with Unicode strings in the frontend already. It works without any problems.
If game names start using Unicode chars, my frontend is in BIG trouble.
To update to newer compiler, Delphi 10 Seattle, will require a complete rewrite of my project. Plus, the cool thumbnails view will be lost forever.
I'm holding on to Delphi 7 compiler for as long as I can.
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Ciro Alfredo Consentino
home: http://emuloader.mameworld.info
e-mail: ciroconsentino@gmail.com
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#358554 - 09/11/16 11:12 PM
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> ROM names are OK with my frontend. But know that my frontend is coded with an ancient
> compiler, Delphi 7, and it doesn't support Unicode.
>
> But I'm talking about game names (galaga, elevator, mslug, gooniesb, etc). If MAME
> devs start using game names in Russian or Chinese languages, how will we type those
> names with our US keyboards ?
>
> I don't have a keyboard with Russian or Chinese letters... that is what I meant.
>
> I'm doing some magic to support Unicode game titles and other tricks with Unicode
> strings in the frontend already. It works without any problems.
>
> If game names start using Unicode chars, my frontend is in BIG trouble.
> To update to newer compiler, Delphi 10 Seattle, will require a complete rewrite of my
> project. Plus, the cool thumbnails view will be lost forever.
> I'm holding on to Delphi 7 compiler for as long as I can.
the shortnames are never going to be anything non-ascii, strictly a-z, 0-9 and _
as you note, they exist so that they can be typed, using characters that are difficult to type simply isn't going to happen.
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: Haze]
#358569 - 09/12/16 03:48 AM
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> > ROM names are OK with my frontend. But know that my frontend is coded with an
> ancient
> > compiler, Delphi 7, and it doesn't support Unicode.
> >
> > But I'm talking about game names (galaga, elevator, mslug, gooniesb, etc). If MAME
> > devs start using game names in Russian or Chinese languages, how will we type those
> > names with our US keyboards ?
> >
> > I don't have a keyboard with Russian or Chinese letters... that is what I meant.
> >
> > I'm doing some magic to support Unicode game titles and other tricks with Unicode
> > strings in the frontend already. It works without any problems.
> >
> > If game names start using Unicode chars, my frontend is in BIG trouble.
> > To update to newer compiler, Delphi 10 Seattle, will require a complete rewrite of
> my
> > project. Plus, the cool thumbnails view will be lost forever.
> > I'm holding on to Delphi 7 compiler for as long as I can.
>
> the shortnames are never going to be anything non-ascii, strictly a-z, 0-9 and _
>
> as you note, they exist so that they can be typed, using characters that are
> difficult to type simply isn't going to happen.
Even _ is a pain in the arse for me because it's in completely different positions on my JIS and ANSI keyboards 
Anyway, I added a validation rule to enforce the limitation on characters in shortnames.
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: Notice for Rom Manager & Front-end authors
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#358585 - 09/12/16 02:06 PM
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