We got one of my personal most wanted games finally, Shoot Away II. Much like its predecessor which somehow managed to be discrete logic in 1984, this was the center of attention for the adult crowd at Dave and Buster's in its day (early 90s). We still need to get a high res scan or professional photo of the backdrop art. I'm sure there are some still around.
Happy "Cinco DOH My O" there .....as my former, past Hispanic boss would jokingly say. iirc I believe he was from Chile or Argentina..I don't remember which so it wasn't really his celebration either. He joked around with Mexican coworkers, but when it came to World Cup action, any friendship was off.
>We got one of my personal most wanted games finally, Shoot Away II. Much like its >predecessor which somehow managed to be discrete logic in 1984, this was the center of >attention for the adult crowd at Dave and Buster's in its day (early 90s).
Congrats. So this one is cpu-based?
>We still need to get a high res scan or professional photo of the backdrop art. I'm sure >there are some still around.
It would probably be something along line of what TrevEB had to do with some cab component pieces in which a shop with an industrial size scanner could do the work. I am not sure how much the cost will be doing that. Maybe as TrevEB to see what it might be.
Same thing would have to be done with my favorite Gremlin wall game Trap Shoot.
> Happy "Cinco DOH My O" there .....as my former, past Hispanic boss would jokingly > say. iirc I believe he was from Chile or Argentina..I don't remember which so it > wasn't really his celebration either. When it came to World Cup action all gloves > were off. > > > > We got one of my personal most wanted games finally, Shoot Away II. Much like its > > predecessor which somehow managed to be discrete logic in 1984, this was the center > of > > attention for the adult crowd at Dave and Buster's in its day (early 90s). > > Congrats. So this one is cpu-based? > >
There's a TMPZ84C011 series CPU on there, similar to the one on Ken Sei Mogura
There's also a Namco C68 (Mitsubishi M37450) CPU there although namcos2.cpp is confusing for that one, in some cases it suggests it's dumped, in other places it seems to indicate otherwise so a Namco expert would have to chime in there.
not sure if that PCB is meant to be driving something else tho, maybe the way the targets are displayed was still basically analog hardware? There might have been per-game additional boards or something as that looks very much like a main board that's designed to be swapped out between games with different extra hardware.
>>>We got one of my personal most wanted games finally, Shoot Away II. Much like its >>>predecessor which somehow managed to be discrete logic in 1984, this was the center >>>of attention for the adult crowd at Dave and Buster's in its day (early 90s).
>> Congrats. So this one is cpu-based?
>There's a TMPZ84C011 series CPU on there, similar to the one on Ken Sei Mogura
Okay. Now I can see why Smit's a happy camper with this.
>There's also a Namco C68 (Mitsubishi M37450) CPU there although namcos2.cpp is confusing >for that one, in some cases it suggests it's dumped, in other places it seems to indicate >otherwise so a Namco expert would have to chime in there.
That's a letdown regarding this part. I hope it can be worked around.
The thing that comes to mind is doing something along line that TrevEB had done with getting some cab components scanned, but some photoshop / artists experts are still needed doing any touch ups.....that is assuming the backdrop piece can be found later at a hefty asking price. I wouldn't be surprised that the artwork rendering output might need another overhaul just to support additional external lamp output features. I am sure the artwork video output rendering updates will be needed to support various lamp outputs of the various wall games.
> We got one of my personal most wanted games finally, Shoot Away II. Much like its > predecessor which somehow managed to be discrete logic in 1984, this was the center > of attention for the adult crowd at Dave and Buster's in its day (early 90s). We > still need to get a high res scan or professional photo of the backdrop art. I'm sure > there are some still around. > > pcb > http://smitdogg.mameworld.info/du/shootawayii.jpg
From a hardware standpoint, does it have any special protection and/or encryption?
"Note to Noobs:
We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.
Not that I'm aware of. Belmsy basically says it will be no problem to emulate. But we really need the backdrop or else it's going to look like a game from 1979.
> Not that I'm aware of. Belmsy basically says it will be no problem to emulate. But we > really need the backdrop or else it's going to look like a game from 1979.
It projects a spot of light onto a backdrop or are there are moving targets that light up behind the screen? or am I misunderstanding how it works? The whole backface thing clearly isn't a monitor.
might actually be quite a bitch with MAME's existing artwork system because the existing artwork system really doesn't support any moving parts and I think the targets would be moving parts in some form.
you could maybe cheat with a fake bitmap and fake rendering of a spot, but that probably wouldn't get by mamedev.
From memory it's light coming from behind the backdrop that pierces through about 80% so you don't "see the pixels" (I think the graphics are really primitive if you were to see them raw).
But I could be wrong and it just appeared this way.
> From memory it's light coming from behind the backdrop that pierces through about 80% > so you don't "see the pixels" (I think the graphics are really primitive if you were > to see them raw). > > But I could be wrong and it just appeared this way.
well I'm more wondering if it actually has any graphics, or if it's a bunch of IR receivers with lights attached on tracks behind there or something
Well I can see from the PCB pictures that there just seems to be main program, sound program, samples, and a mask rom? (bios?) near the main program and there there doesn't really seem to be anything graphics related on there, which is one reason I was wondering.
I saw something over here several of years ago where it had 'boulders' running down some structure, where the boulders were clearly some kind of targets behind the screen with receivers in them, the game side of it was purely mechanical in that case, just the scoring panel digital, hence why I'm wondering about this one.
In this case various sites do list it as projection tho, so maybe the base unit just projects the score etc. onto the backdrop with simple space invaders like hardware for video.
I'm probably not going to be doing much with a dump even if you send one, at least not right now.
I guess you mean the m28c64a, I haven't dumped that. I can but I'll wait to see if it's needed. Datasheet says eeprom so I'm guessing it saves settings and scores and a dump isn't needed. I could be wrong.
So, the graphics are so small that it doesn't need a rom for them. You could fit them in the program rom. It's literally an all white clay pigeon and a few pixels for explosion. Again going by memory.
> I guess you mean the m28c64a, I haven't dumped that. I can but I'll wait to see if > it's needed. Datasheet says eeprom so I'm guessing it saves settings and scores and a > dump isn't needed. I could be wrong. >
yeah, it's 8kb which is rather large for settings, but you could be right, especially if the board was designed to be used for a lot more than just this (eg. maybe to drive fruit machines where you need to store a lot of stats data)
> So, the graphics are so small that it doesn't need a rom for them. You could fit them > in the program rom. It's literally an all white clay pigeon and a few pixels for > explosion. Again going by memory.
yeah, if it's actually projecting a simple bitmap to the screen that would be logical.
> So, the graphics are so small that it doesn't need a rom for them. You could fit them > in the program rom. It's literally an all white clay pigeon and a few pixels for > explosion. Again going by memory.
If it works like Trapshoot Classic (see video below), the "graphics" are actually an array of light bulbs shining behind some colored transparencies (probably back painted on the overlay glass) to produce the pigeons, bullets and explosions. Easy to emulate as it's just a bunch of logic outputs to each bulb. The hard part is you need an accurate photo/scan of not just the overlay but also bulb array/transparencies underneath (if you're lucky, it has a test/demo mode that lights up all the bulbs at once and you can take a photo of that).
I'd love to see some of the old wall games from Gremlin and Bally emulated, unfortunately most are so simple they don't have CPUs.
I don't think they would have gone that route in 1992 but then again I wouldn't think they would have gone discrete logic in 1984 but they did. I'm pretty sure I recall seeing pixels when I got really close to the screen.
> Not that I'm aware of. Belmsy basically says it will be no problem to emulate. But we > really need the backdrop or else it's going to look like a game from 1979.
It looks like the developers of Time Crisis 2 preserved the backdrop of Shoot Away II for their minigame. Would it be possible for MAME to somehow extract and use that one?
>> Not that I'm aware of. Belmsy basically says it will be no problem to emulate. But we >> really need the backdrop or else it's going to look like a game from 1979.
Been like that when frotz had Atari Triple Hunt first emulated in 2001 or 2002 and no external artwork support for Triple Hunt until several years later.
>It projects a spot of light onto a backdrop or are there are moving targets that light up >behind the screen? or am I misunderstanding how it works? The whole backface thing >clearly isn't a monitor.... might actually be quite a bitch with MAME's existing artwork >system because the existing artwork system really doesn't support any moving parts
Yep. The artwork rendering support needs an update since it was done in 2006, but I am impressed with the ingenious work-around methods that contributors have done with the layout system over the last several years. It's too bad that a wall game like the original version of Gremlin's Trap Shoot is beyond the capability feature of the current layout set up.
>and I think the targets would be moving parts in some form....you could maybe cheat with >a fake bitmap and fake rendering of a spot, but that probably wouldn't get by mamedev.
While the artwork / layout needs a future update and also an actual scan of the Shoot Away wall screen is needed as well, can't the current cheat/hack as you described be used in MAME for now?
I'd like to believe Shoot Away II can be almost to the level of these examples (below) even though the rendering output would still be a hack at this time. I like what Sandro was able to do with Ice Cold Beer even though the artwork scans of the pieces would really be the final touch. I am certain a backdrop for Shoot Away II might be able to be scanned eventually. Hopefully there will be a future overhaul for external artwork rendering that can handle multiple lamps output and other features.
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