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minor MAME samples question.
#368925 - 08/22/17 07:02 PM
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Hi All,
Does anyone know if there is a way - a flag, ini setting, etc (other than regressing to an old version of MAME) to force MAME to use a sample set for sound rather on a particular game rather than pure emulation. Particularly, in a game like Q*bert that uses the Votrax SC-01. The sound emulation is still a work in progress to date and it makes the game less fun to play. I appreciate that it was most likely an absolute enormous undertaking and it is amazing that the emulation has progressed to a point of pure hardware level simulation on the sound chip, great for the long term, but it would be nice if there was some option to force samples while work progresses.
I hope this is not a dicey topic or upsets anyone and I realize it is far better to have true emulation of all components, but if they are not in great state yet, it does impact usability when the rest of the emulation is spot on.
Thanks for any info.
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| CiroConsentino |
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Frontend freak!
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Re: minor MAME samples question. *DELETED* *DELETED*
[Re: simion]
#368927 - 08/22/17 07:19 PM
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: minor MAME samples question.
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#368932 - 08/22/17 08:03 PM
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>Discrete sound emulation is still a WIP feature.
Discrete (analog or digital) emulation in general (ie: netlist), but should eventually be improving even though it may be awhile. Going back to Asteroids example with audio that was off base and many users complaining over the years from spring 2001 till Derrick Renaud fixed the audio in mid 2005, it might not take that long for Votrax speech emulation to be better.
>We, should be able to choose between discrete audio or external audio samples. For a MAME
>dev it's easy to add it back and to add a new toggle setting like this one.
If anything, this would be where Robbbert can have HBMAME handle this function.....assuming he wants to add it to HBMAME. What OG did along with the work that Lord Nightmare was doing over the years should be the only thing in MAME build....let some alternate build handle the external sample file support.
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: minor MAME samples question
[Re: simion]
#368934 - 08/22/17 08:28 PM
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>(other than regressing to an old version of MAME)
It is possible to run an older version of MAME that is set for a specific game while keeping up to date with newer versions of MAME. That is what users had to do with Asteroids discrete audio when it was altered by Keith Wilkins (former MAMEdev) in spring 2001 until Derrick Renaud joined MAMEdev and fixed up a lot of the discrete audio including fixing Asteroids audio.
> to force MAME to use a sample set for sound rather on a particular game rather than pure
>emulation. Particularly, in a game like Q*bert that uses the Votrax SC-01.
A lot of Asteroids fans also had to wait for some time until Derrick Renaud was able to improve a lot of the centralized discrete audio code and fix up analog audio sounds such as Asteroids or add analog audio to many of the 1970s era games.
> The sound emulation is still a work in progress to date and it makes the game less fun
>to play. I appreciate that it was most likely an absolute enormous undertaking and it is
>amazing that the emulation has progressed to a point of pure hardware level simulation on
>the sound chip, great for the long term, but it would be nice if there was some option to
>force samples while work progresses.
Consider it a momentary setback. That is what has always been the case with many updates of MAME over the two decades. The biggest ones were the breakage of many Sega games (mainly bootleg versions of Sega arcade games) when Aaron Giles had updated the memory address feature in fall 2000 and wasn't fixed until 2005. Aaron's updated memory work allowed other games to be supported that wouldn't have been possible with old memory address system. It also helped that other devs (Charles MacDonald, Guru, Aaron Giles, dwidel) were able to figure out how the Hitachi FD 1089, FD 1094, an encrypted MC 8123 worked and were able to support the original Sega games. And Aaron Giles finally fixed up the way Sega games were handled in late 2005. The Asteroids audio (already described) was another example.
I don't see it taking as long for the Votrax speech to be corrected, but it may be a while since OG is also busy with other stuff such as improving Konami video rendering gameplay output.
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Re: minor MAME samples question.
[Re: CiroConsentino]
#368968 - 08/23/17 06:32 PM
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> Don't hold your breath, buddy.
> I've asked about this 3 times already, only to receive a straight "f..k o.f" answer
> from a MAME dev.
> I too would like external audio samples to be added back in the official build.
> Discrete sound emulation is still a WIP feature.
> We, should be able to choose between discrete audio or external audio samples. For a
> MAME dev it's easy to add it back and to add a new toggle setting like this one.
>
The "programmer" can't add a couple of lines back, even when I did half the work for him. It's things like this (and REIROM) that give a respectful nation like Brazil a bad name, always complaining but never listening. It's like a miracle you managed to program a front end, or maybe knowing only one program language in truth doesn't make you a programmer. 
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Re: minor MAME samples question.
[Re: BIOS-D]
#368975 - 08/23/17 09:44 PM
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When I read that post, I assumed you were referring to me, not that goddamn lazy idiot you quoted.
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Re: minor MAME samples question.
[Re: The Nate]
#368986 - 08/24/17 10:19 AM
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> When I read that post, I assumed you were referring to me, not that goddamn lazy
> idiot you quoted.
That's quite common with forum's flat mode. No, I don't even know you. How would I? 
Naturally I'm talking about the awaiting to shit post given the chance playing the martyr role right now. He was given plenty of solutions but no, a MAMEdev has to fix it for him. It's not our problem his front end can't handle more than one MAME folder and select which version to use. Neither is if a Delphi only "programmer" (I'm not the one calling names, he called himself like that) can't identify where a procedure starts nor ends, how variables are declared, where libraries are included, what lines are comments that could be ignored, etc. in a language he's not familiar with considering he claims to code since puberty.
I'm not even a MAMEdev, just a regular MAME user. How else someone could react when he has been given solutions but they're ignored because it isn't the solution he wants to hear?
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Re: minor MAME samples question.
[Re: simion]
#369254 - 09/01/17 12:07 AM
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You can take the current version and try to revert just the votrax changes(2c79c1ed) but it looks like there are conflicts on some of the files and they have to be resolved. I've tried resolving but still get compiler errors because I'm not that familiar with the code, but if somebody has any idea of how to merge those back with HEAD we could use the current mame version with the old samples.
Unmerged paths:
both modified: src/devices/sound/votrax.cpp
both modified: src/devices/sound/votrax.h
both modified: src/mame/audio/gottlieb.cpp
both modified: src/mame/audio/gottlieb.h
both modified: src/mame/drivers/astrocde.cpp
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Modified 0.189 build
[Re: simion]
#369320 - 09/02/17 12:37 AM
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> (other than regressing
> to an old version of MAME)
If you want, I made a fork off of what's in the MAME code repository as of tonight, so it should be roughly in sync, ROM-wise, with mainline 0.189. The major difference is that it will have any potentially shaky changes that people held back prior to the monthly release. So, no warranty, no support, if it breaks, all you get is to keep the pieces.
The Github page is here: https://github.com/MooglyGuy/oldtrax
If you just want binaries:
64-bit: http://polygonal-moogle.com/mame/old_votrax/oldtrax64.exe
MD5: 78cea73d9d9c9b8afe8b2b71b213bcd1
SHA1: b1f07efa917a824dec2d410350a84f9030f83ed5
32-bit: http://polygonal-moogle.com/mame/old_votrax/oldtrax.exe
MD5: 7b112e82c8eb5684288048ffd5b1d4f8
SHA1: 16fe79bdf8bf6e2215f0caadcdd05a00be6e984a
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Re: Modified 0.189 build
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#369322 - 09/02/17 01:08 AM
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Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! 
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Windows 11 64 bit OS
Intel Core i7-10700
Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060 6GB
32GB DDR4 RAM
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Oh, and for the record
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#369323 - 09/02/17 01:12 AM
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It took me all of an hour or so to get everything working, including compile time. The majority of the time was spent getting the 32-bit tools working on my 64-bit system, building the 32-bit build, and uploading the builds to my webspace.
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Re: Modified 0.189 build
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#369324 - 09/02/17 02:03 AM
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Thanks.
If possible it would be useful to have the diffs released as a patch or git diff so that we could apply to other versions of mame or mame variants.
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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> Thanks.
> If possible it would be useful to have the diffs released as a patch or git diff so
> that we could apply to other versions of mame or mame variants.
There would be no guarantee that the patch would successfully apply to future versions depending on future development changes.
Instead simply keep this current folder next to your current MAME folder.
J:\MAME 189\oldtrax64.exe
J:\MAME\mame64.exe
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> Thanks.
> If possible it would be useful to have the diffs released as a patch or git diff so
> that we could apply to other versions of mame or mame variants.
Surely, if you're capable of operating the command line to the point of applying a code patch to other versions of MAME or MAME variants, you're capable of using git to make a patch. In fact, one might be given to simply taking the solitary commit to my fork of the code, and making a diff out of it.
I made this fork because I haven't had time to do MAME development since November of last year, I thought it would be a fun task to see if I could still grok the development environment and APIs and such, and I figured it would be a nice gesture to the community to take an hour out of my usual Friday-evening routine of drinking and playing Rock Band 3, Expert Pro Keys.
Kindly refer to the warranty I gave when I posted it, which is that there is none.
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: Modified 0.189 build
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#369341 - 09/02/17 08:03 PM
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>> (other than regressing
>> to an old version of MAME)
>If you want, I made a fork off of what's in the MAME code repository as of tonight, so it
>should be roughly in sync, ROM-wise, with mainline 0.189. The major difference is that it
>will have any potentially shaky changes that people held back prior to the monthly release.
>So, no warranty, no support, if it breaks, all you get is to keep the pieces.
Props for doing this for folks still wanting keep things in prior format. Hopefully Votrax SC-01 corrections will be sooner compared to the old emulation episode of keeping Juergen B's old pong simulation from 1999 to latest builds of MAME from years 2000 to 2012 until couriersud got pong back into MAME source mid 2012.
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"When I wanted pong back into MAME or to re-add unsupported NEOGEO games to it, I had to file compare between source releases manually and look line by line for differences."
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awesome
[Re: MooglyGuy]
#369619 - 09/12/17 02:47 AM
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Thank you so much for taking the time to do this! Can't wait to try it out.
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Re: awesome
[Re: simion]
#369642 - 09/12/17 05:05 PM
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works wonderfully - thanks again for taking the time to help!
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