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Model 2 Wippie Wipperton
#374999 - 03/21/18 10:27 PM
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: Model 2
[Re: Smitdogg]
#375002 - 03/21/18 10:59 PM
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Kudos to SailorSat's work.....hardware linking Guru. 
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Re: Model 2 Wippie Wipperton
[Re: Smitdogg]
#375003 - 03/21/18 11:19 PM
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Re: Model 2 Wippie Wipperton
[Re: Smitdogg]
#375004 - 03/21/18 11:19 PM
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The challenge is runs 8 instances in a same pc using mame and m2 emulator
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Wow !
[Re: Smitdogg]
#375010 - 03/22/18 01:24 PM
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That looks fantastic.
Is the comms code "low-level enough" for MAME requirements ?
I'm surprised to see it bridge between different emulators including one that is AFAIK closed-source ?
The result is a fantastic achievement nonetheless ! For people my age, this was the golden age of arcades, and the attract mode of SEGA racers spanning multiple cabinets is one of the biggest wow factors I can remember.
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Re: Wow !
[Re: -Mitaine-]
#375011 - 03/22/18 03:36 PM
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> That looks fantastic.
> Is the comms code "low-level enough" for MAME requirements ?
> I'm surprised to see it bridge between different emulators including one that is
> AFAIK closed-source ?
The Sega Model 1/Model 2 comms simulation over TCP is included in MAME. SailorSat's update was merged not long ago.
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Re: Wow !
[Re: Vas Crabb]
#375014 - 03/22/18 04:11 PM
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Are these now playable in MAME? What's the difference in game playability to the Model 2 emulator would you say its just as good?
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Re: Model 2 Wippie Wipperton
[Re: Smitdogg]
#375016 - 03/22/18 04:51 PM
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Wippie McWipface!
Not that jokes should take away from the mind-bendingly cool things happening on Model 2 land these days thanks to Kale, SailorSat and the gang. 
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Re: Wow !
[Re: agard]
#375017 - 03/22/18 05:40 PM
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No. Sega and other 3D hardware-emulated graphics generally look very poor in MAME compared to the real hardware and other emus, even old ones such as M2emu. Usually way more pixellated/voxellated and layers missing/wrongly ordered.
I'm guessing because shortcuts are taken with other emus (HLE etc) where MAME tries to emulate the hardware entirely accurately. Its an admirable approach but it seems to me like the MAME devs should fudge it with suitably commented code (like other emulators do) to look more like the actual game, both for gaming and for MAME's stated reference purposes, at least until someone finds out more info to fix the emulation up more accurately/properly.
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| B2K24 |
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MAME @ 15 kHz Sony Trinitron CRT user
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> to me like the MAME devs should fudge it with suitably commented code (like other
> emulators do) to look more like the actual game, both for gaming and for MAME's
> stated reference purposes, at least until someone finds out more info to fix the
> emulation up more accurately/properly.
[ATTACHED IMAGE - CLICK FOR FULL SIZE]
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Re: Wow !
[Re: JustNiz]
#375026 - 03/22/18 09:19 PM
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> Its an admirable approach but it seems
> to me like the MAME devs should fudge it
Why the hell should MAMEdevs "fudge" anything so that an imperfectly emulated (or perfectly emulated, for that matter) game or machine can look or sound good?! MAME's only driving goal always has been, is now, and (I hope!) always will be accuracy in reproducing an emulation target's hardware and software (insofar as those are understood), not the kind of "good presentation" or "usability" that some folks would find more pleasing.
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Re: Wow !
[Re: JustNiz]
#375028 - 03/23/18 02:15 AM
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No Mame is doing the right thing by emulating the hardware properly so the game plays as it did in the arcade. Mame doesn't fudge things they make accurate guesses after studying the hardware etc. There's always something new playable in every new Mame release so Mame will get there in the end with M2
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Wow !
[Re: JustNiz]
#375044 - 03/23/18 09:24 PM
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> No. Sega and other 3D hardware-emulated graphics generally look very poor in MAME
> compared to the real hardware and other emus, even old ones such as M2emu.
LOL. Have you even looked at the newest videos that the post you're replying to linked? The MAME vs. M2EMU ones are particularly interesting since MAME is in many scenes pixel-for-pixel what M2EMU is showing.
And unlike M2EMU, MAME plays these games fine on my Linux machine and my MacBook.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Model 2 Wippie Wipperton
[Re: fortuna_chan]
#375045 - 03/23/18 09:27 PM
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> The challenge is runs 8 instances in a same pc using mame and m2 emulator
Fortunately you don't have to; over a LAN works well too
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Wow !
[Re: agard]
#375046 - 03/23/18 09:28 PM
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> Are these now playable in MAME? What's the difference in game playability to the
> Model 2 emulator would you say its just as good?
These are now playable in MAME (or will be next week in 0.196). Playability is very similar, and will be improving further soon. Plus you get the usual MAME benefits like BGFX effects and running natively on Mac and Linux and so on.
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: Wow !
[Re: R. Belmont]
#375048 - 03/23/18 11:51 PM
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>>Are these now playable in MAME? What's the difference in game playability to the
>>Model 2 emulator would you say its just as good?
>These are now playable in MAME (or will be next week in 0.196). Playability is very
>similar, and will be improving further soon.
Farewell Santeri S. / Gridle's 2002 April Fools piece now that Model 2 working in MAME will be a reality in official release, but actually already is a reality for those that have super computer sytems that can make their own builds at this time.
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Tafoid |
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I keep on testing.. testing.. testing... into the future!
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Re: Wow !
[Re: gregf]
#375050 - 03/24/18 12:33 AM
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> >>Are these now playable in MAME? What's the difference in game playability to the
> >>Model 2 emulator would you say its just as good?
>
> > These are now playable in MAME (or will be next week in 0.196). Playability is very
> > similar, and will be improving further soon.
>
> Farewell Santeri S. / Gridle's 2002 April Fools piece now that Model 2 working in
> MAME will be a reality in official release, but actually already is a reality for
> those that have super computer sytems that can make their own builds at this time.
Model 2 games are greatly improved. They are still flagged Machine Not Working due to unfinished work, crashes and other bits. Please, everyone, do not get your hopes up too high. Progress takes time and in what little time effort has been put into it, things are moving fast.
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Re: Wow !
[Re: R. Belmont]
#375059 - 03/24/18 04:00 AM
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> > No. Sega and other 3D hardware-emulated graphics generally look very poor in MAME
> > compared to the real hardware and other emus, even old ones such as M2emu.
>
> LOL. Have you even looked at the newest videos that the post you're replying to
> linked? The MAME vs. M2EMU ones are particularly interesting since MAME is in many
> scenes pixel-for-pixel what M2EMU is showing.
>
> And unlike M2EMU, MAME plays these games fine on my Linux machine and my MacBook.
Mame is missing a lot of the texture filtering, and has some odd clipping issues with things close to the camera, but yes, it is closer than I would have expected.
I look forward to real hardware, linking with MAME, linked with M2emu
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Re: Wow !
[Re: Tafoid]
#375087 - 03/24/18 11:12 PM
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> Model 2 games are greatly improved. They are still flagged Machine Not Working due to
> unfinished work, crashes and other bits. Please, everyone, do not get your hopes up
> too high. Progress takes time and in what little time effort has been put into it,
> things are moving fast.
The error message that appears for it in MAME should be put in bolded 32-size font.
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"Note to Noobs:
We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.
C.D.~"
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Re: Wow !
[Re: agard]
#375089 - 03/25/18 12:54 AM
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> No Mame is doing the right thing ... so the game plays
> as it did in the arcade.
That's exactly my point... MAME's rendering output currently looks significantly less like an actual Sega Model 2 arcade machine than M2EMU does, because of (the lack of) pixel filtering etc.
I totally understand that the reason is MAME's philosophy to not to workaround anything and only emulate stuff as it is understood to actually work for documentary purposes, however my argument is that the actual gameplay experience is a large part of the thing that should be documented/preserved too, even if that means temporarily allowing some well-partitioned and commented HLE (or whatever) only to better recreate the actual experience, and only until it can be replaced by some code that more accurately emulates how the actual hardware works. I mean lets be honest here, that approach is already being selectively used in other places in MAME such as for fudging around protection, bad dumps, unknown IO hardware etc. which if you really are going to be hyperanal about only emulating anything that you can do so accurately, and then applied that rule across MAME completely consistently, it would suddenly make many more currently working games in MAME completely unplayable. To be 100% clear before someone else misunderstands/miscategorizes my point again, I'm absolutely not advocating
support for features/extensions that weren't provided by the original hardware (e.g. for modern gamers "convenience"/"expectations").
Edited by JustNiz (03/25/18 01:13 AM)
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| gregf |
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Ramtek's Trivia promoter
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Re: Wow !
[Re: Tafoid]
#375119 - 03/26/18 10:05 AM
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>> Farewell Santeri S. / Gridle's 2002 April Fools piece now that Model 2 working in
>> MAME will be a reality in official release, but actually already is a reality for
>> those that have super computer sytems that can make their own builds at this time.
>Model 2 games are greatly improved. They are still flagged Machine Not Working due to
>unfinished work, crashes and other bits. Progress takes time and in what little time effort
>has been put into it, things are moving fast.
I am sentimental about that old April Fools stunt and it's too bad it will be an eventual thing of the past, but it is nice to see that the progress has moved past Gridle's excellent 'old/2002 April Fools ' gotcha stunt from back then going towards becoming a reality even though it took some time for some games to be considered playable. I wonder if any of the old MAME.net posters that got upset with Gridle's stunt back in 2002 are still following emulation. iirc there had to have been 10 to 15 posters that were upset with Gridle back then.
>Please, everyone, do not get your hopes up too high.
I agree. I am saving my high hopes for Mirco's Super Stud maybe happening in MAME later this year.
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