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Mario Walking...0.141u2
#246402 - 02/12/11 02:58 PM
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I did not want to add this to or start having multiple posts to the news thread for the subject, so I am starting a new thread here.
First, I am very grateful and appreciative for all the work that has been put forth into MAME, and as the subject of this thread probably gave away, the discreet sound in the 'Nintendo' games. Especially, a huge thank you to Derrick Renaud. He has done and continues to do an incredible job with the games.
One thing that still appears 'off' to me is the intensity or volume/loudness of Mario's walking in Mario Bros. I was hoping this...
"> Fixed DISCRETE_WAVLOG & DISCRETE_RCFILTER fixing dkongjr and likely other sounds. [Derrick Renaud]"
...may have addressed the issue...But it appears not.
I am not question the work or accuracy of what Derrick has applied, but my own memory at this point. Is Mario's walk truly that loud in the game? It overbears all other sounds and sounds 2-3 times louder than all other game sounds. I don't recall that from the arcades.
Nevertheless, if it is, I truly apologize for even starting this thread. On the other hand, if it isn't and there is still more work to be done to it, then thank you for informing me.
I keep finding myself going back to an older version of MAME [0.122u4 or older], before discreet sounds were implemented; however, I rather force myself to play with and 'get use to' the newer versions of MAME, if indeed the walking sound is suppose to be that loud.
Thanks in advance for reading this and taking the time to respond. I appreciate it.
-Trebor
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: Trebor]
#246403 - 02/12/11 03:12 PM
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Walking sound is mixed in via 22k resistors and the other sounds are mixed in via >= 100k. That's at the origin.
There are quite a number of threads on this site around discrete sound. What we need as a proof are recordings taken directly from the audio output. Not from a microphone.
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: couriersud]
#246406 - 02/12/11 04:20 PM
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> Walking sound is mixed in via 22k resistors and the other sounds are mixed in via >=
> 100k. That's at the origin.
>
> There are quite a number of threads on this site around discrete sound. What we need
> as a proof are recordings taken directly from the audio output. Not from a
> microphone.
And the R/C values were all confirmed from a real board. Some values said one thing on the schematic, something different silkscreened on the pcb, and the actual resistor used was a completely different value. We used the actual resistor used.
BTW, let's not forget couriersud. He implemented mario, dkong and others. I just helped him optimize these for speed and confirmed all R/C values.
The 141u1 fixes have no effect other then fixing the broken sounds due to a 1 line misplacement of code
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Do not p-mail me for help compiling my updates, ask on the board.
Do not request sound for your favorite game. I work on whatever, when I get around to it.
If you have schematics for discrete sound games not easily found on the net, I would be interested.
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: Trebor]
#246408 - 02/12/11 04:31 PM
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> Nevertheless, if it is, I truly apologize for even starting this thread. On the other
> hand, if it isn't and there is still more work to be done to it, then thank you for
> informing me.
Don't worry about asking questions. That is never a problem. The problem occurs when some people go about it this way. "The sounds for xxx are wrong. What is the problem. Why is no one fixing it. Rant, rant, rant."
D.
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Do not p-mail me for help compiling my updates, ask on the board.
Do not request sound for your favorite game. I work on whatever, when I get around to it.
If you have schematics for discrete sound games not easily found on the net, I would be interested.
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: Derrick Renaud]
#246409 - 02/12/11 04:45 PM
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couriersud & Derrick Renaud,
Thank you very much for your replies. I truly appreciate it. I guess the only last thing I may 'bank' on is something else is discovered down the road which as a 'side-effect' will cause the other sounds to be louder or the walking sound to be lower/softer.
Something similar I believe transpired with Phoenix***, that long after after all the values were measured and tested from an actual board; something else was uncovered as a final tweak which did fix some still so-called 'outstanding' issue(s)...
...Or maybe not in this case. Either way, the love you and dedication you both show to this project is admirable. I'm grateful you're both on-board with this project, and also the consideration and time out you have taken to explain and reason with me. Thanks, again.
***After a check over the drivers history at MAWS, I believe what I am recalling is after these fixes:
0.104: Derrick Renaud changed R22 to 470 ohm per real board of the Phoenix discrete sounds. This should fix the remaining complaints with the discrete sound. The shot & explosion noise sounds still need discrete emulation.
0.103u5: Derrick Renaud tweaked Phoenix effect #2 sound to be more accurate matching oscilliscope data. Changed the Phoenix discrete clock rate to a fixed rate of 120000 allowing the simulation to be more accurate with less alaising noise at the cost of speed.
It was some time later until this:
0.122u7: Changed 8085A CPU1 clock speed to 5.5MHz.
0.122u6: Phoenix and clones [Couriersud]: Video timing from schematics, palette from schematics (resnet.h), no more colortable and added save state. Changed visible area to 208x256 and VSync to 61.035156 Hz.
EDIT: My only last question concerns this:
"Walking sound is mixed in via 22k resistors and the other sounds are mixed in via >= 100k."
'Other sounds' is definitely mixed in via >=100k and not 10k?
I ask for two reasons, and I do not mean to insult, but just checking, one, that it is not a typo. Or two, the color bands can be so close in intensity and pattern on the 10k and 100k resistor, that one may have been mistaken for the other.
Regardless, that's it...I promise to stop inquiring now 
Edited by Trebor (02/12/11 05:15 PM)
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| Tomu Breidah |
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: Trebor]
#246414 - 02/12/11 06:49 PM
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> EDIT: My only last question concerns this:
> the color bands can be so close in intensity and pattern on
> the 10k and 100k resistor, that one may have been mistaken for the other.
>
I was thinking this before I got to this point in the thread.
But a resistor can also be read with an Ohm meter.
Please excuse my insolence. 
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LEVEL-4
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| Foxhack |
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: Derrick Renaud]
#246448 - 02/13/11 08:11 AM
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> > Nevertheless, if it is, I truly apologize for even starting this thread. On the
> other
> > hand, if it isn't and there is still more work to be done to it, then thank you for
> > informing me.
>
> Don't worry about asking questions. That is never a problem. The problem occurs when
> some people go about it this way. "The sounds for xxx are wrong. What is the problem.
> Why is no one fixing it. Rant, rant, rant."
>
> D.
HAVE YOU FIXED SKATE OR DIE YET OR DO WE HAVE TO BRING OUT THE PAULY SHORE MOVIES
 
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italie |
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MAME owes italie many thank yous, hah
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You've earned it.
[Re: Foxhack]
#246455 - 02/13/11 04:31 PM
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> > > Nevertheless, if it is, I truly apologize for even starting this thread. On the
> > other
> > > hand, if it isn't and there is still more work to be done to it, then thank you
> for
> > > informing me.
> >
> > Don't worry about asking questions. That is never a problem. The problem occurs
> when
> > some people go about it this way. "The sounds for xxx are wrong. What is the
> problem.
> > Why is no one fixing it. Rant, rant, rant."
> >
> > D.
>
> HAVE YOU FIXED SKATE OR DIE YET OR DO WE HAVE TO BRING OUT THE PAULY SHORE MOVIES
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Re: You've earned it.
[Re: italie]
#246461 - 02/13/11 08:39 PM
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> > > > Nevertheless, if it is, I truly apologize for even starting this thread. On the
> > > other
> > > > hand, if it isn't and there is still more work to be done to it, then thank you
> > for
> > > > informing me.
> > >
> > > Don't worry about asking questions. That is never a problem. The problem occurs
> > when
> > > some people go about it this way. "The sounds for xxx are wrong. What is the
> > problem.
> > > Why is no one fixing it. Rant, rant, rant."
> > >
> > > D.
> >
> > HAVE YOU FIXED SKATE OR DIE YET OR DO WE HAVE TO BRING OUT THE PAULY SHORE MOVIES
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J6qOSUJXy0
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"Note to Noobs:
We are glad to help you but simply posting that something does not work is not going to lead to you getting help. The more information you can supply defining your problem, the less likely it will be that you will get smart-alec replies.
C.D.~"
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| Fever |
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: Foxhack]
#246551 - 02/14/11 10:36 PM
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> > > Nevertheless, if it is, I truly apologize for even starting this thread. On the
> > other
> > > hand, if it isn't and there is still more work to be done to it, then thank you
> for
> > > informing me.
> >
> > Don't worry about asking questions. That is never a problem. The problem occurs
> when
> > some people go about it this way. "The sounds for xxx are wrong. What is the
> problem.
> > Why is no one fixing it. Rant, rant, rant."
> >
> > D.
>
> HAVE YOU FIXED SKATE OR DIE YET OR DO WE HAVE TO BRING OUT THE PAULY SHORE MOVIES
LOL oh yeah - alot of people thought 720 was called 'Skate or Die' cuz' y'know that what it says when the bees come
Did you know though (and I'm willing to bet that actually you do, but hey, I'm making conversation) that to cash in on this someone actually made a game called 'Skate or Die'?
Edit - pic removed for being broken
That someone was EA who also did the official home version of Atari's Marble Madness - what gives there? Some corporate fallout no doubt!
That led me to wonder who DID do the home version of 720
Mindscape - apparently, who knew? It came under the 'US Gold' publishing banner this side of the pond, it did!
Edited by Fever (02/15/11 12:29 AM)
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| Foxhack |
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: Fever]
#246554 - 02/14/11 10:40 PM
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> > > > Nevertheless, if it is, I truly apologize for even starting this thread. On the
> > > other
> > > > hand, if it isn't and there is still more work to be done to it, then thank you
> > for
> > > > informing me.
> > >
> > > Don't worry about asking questions. That is never a problem. The problem occurs
> > when
> > > some people go about it this way. "The sounds for xxx are wrong. What is the
> > problem.
> > > Why is no one fixing it. Rant, rant, rant."
> > >
> > > D.
> >
> > HAVE YOU FIXED SKATE OR DIE YET OR DO WE HAVE TO BRING OUT THE PAULY SHORE MOVIES
>
> LOL oh yeah - alot of people thought 720 was called 'Skate or Die' cuz' y'know that
> what it says when the bees come
> Did you know though (and I'm willing to bet that actually you do, but hey, I'm making
> conversation) that to cash in on this someone actually made a game called 'Skate or
> Die'?
>
> That someone was EA who also did the official home version of Atari's Marble Madness
> - what gives there? Some corporate fallout no doubt!
>
> That led me to wonder who DID do the home version of 720
>
> Mindscape - apparently, who knew? It came under the 'US Gold' publishing banner this
> side of the pond, it did!
Actually I didn't know that. I only said Skate or Die because it was the only skateboarding game I could think of. 
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: Fever]
#246555 - 02/14/11 10:48 PM
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> That someone was EA who also did the official home version of Atari's Marble Madness
> - what gives there? Some corporate fallout no doubt!
And both Skate or Die and 720 ultimately are probably less well remembered than Rob Hubbard's theme song for the C64 version of Skate or Die.
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| Fever |
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Reformed Sk3n3 Quitter
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: R. Belmont]
#246577 - 02/15/11 12:12 AM
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> > That someone was EA who also did the official home version of Atari's Marble
> Madness
> > - what gives there? Some corporate fallout no doubt!
>
> And both Skate or Die and 720 ultimately are probably less well remembered than Rob
> Hubbard's theme song for the C64 version of Skate or Die.
As it happens, the page I direct linked the pic of Skate or Die from (which I now suspect doesn't actually display if you don't already have it in your cashe - oops)
contains remixes and the sid file for the Rob Hubbard classic I would post a link but - do .sid files count as ROMS for being against board policy reasons?
I definately remember loading poor quality games from tape just to hear the Ron Hubbard theme again, I'm thinking 'Phantom of the Asteroids' here especially
BTW 'Phantom of the Asteroids'?? That's not even a good pun! Asteroids/Opera - totally diffferent, assuming that's what they were going for...
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: Fever]
#246583 - 02/15/11 01:05 AM
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> As it happens, the page I direct linked the pic of Skate or Die from (which I now
> suspect doesn't actually display if you don't already have it in your cashe - oops)
> contains remixes and the sid file for the Rob Hubbard classic I would post a link but
> - do .sid files count as ROMS for being against board policy reasons?
I don't consider them to be ROMs, and there's a distinct lack of game companies caring about VGM that isn't MP3 rips from commercial soundtrack CDs, but it's really up to Twisty.
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: Fever]
#246640 - 02/15/11 06:38 PM
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> - .sid files...against board policy reasons?
SIDs? Yeah you can link to those.
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: couriersud]
#246658 - 02/15/11 07:36 PM
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thats the problem people!the mame team needs proof!
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I’m convinced Mario is a hobo.
He wakes up everyday in the same clothes, runs around in sewers, and collects coins for a living.
At the end of the day, he uses the coins to buy mushrooms
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| Fever |
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Reformed Sk3n3 Quitter
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: R. Belmont]
#246661 - 02/15/11 08:18 PM
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> > As it happens, the page I direct linked the pic of Skate or Die from (which I now
> > suspect doesn't actually display if you don't already have it in your cashe - oops)
> > contains remixes and the sid file for the Rob Hubbard classic I would post a link
> but
> > - do .sid files count as ROMS for being against board policy reasons?
>
> I don't consider them to be ROMs, and there's a distinct lack of game companies
> caring about VGM that isn't MP3 rips from commercial soundtrack CDs, but it's really
> up to Twisty.
OK then heres the page with the sid and link to the remix on
and here is Rob Hubbard's profile page on there - who knew he looked like a homosexual geography teacher? (not that I have anything against homosexuals or geography teachers!)
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: jumpmaniac81]
#246665 - 02/15/11 08:28 PM
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> thats the problem people!the mame team needs proof!
So she left you your PC then?
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| gregf |
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: couriersud]
#246691 - 02/15/11 11:35 PM
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>There are quite a number of threads on this site around discrete sound. What we need as
> a proof are recordings taken directly from the audio output. Not from a microphone.
To also add another scenario to this, the pcb could have been repaired using wrong parts when it was in the hands of a prior owner.
It shouldn't happen, but there was a case of during the time when the Congo Bongo external audio samples (broken and not playing MAME at this time) were to be re-recorded by a pcb owner a few years ago. The pcb had a poor repair job with some wrong parts being used on the pcb. The contributor had to undo and remove all the various wrong parts to restore pcb back to its original state before working on recording external audio samples of Congo Bongo.
It's a rare possibility, but that can happen too.
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| R. Belmont |
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: Fever]
#246712 - 02/16/11 06:18 PM
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> OK then heres the page with the sid and link to the remix on
> and here is Rob Hubbard's profile page on there - who knew he looked like a
> homosexual geography teacher? (not that I have anything against homosexuals or
> geography teachers!)
I've met both Rob Hubbard and David Whittaker. Rob's not as pervert-looking in real life as some of the pictures make it look 
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: R. Belmont]
#246715 - 02/16/11 06:31 PM
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they all have a secret room we dont know about.
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| Fever |
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Reformed Sk3n3 Quitter
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: R. Belmont]
#246734 - 02/16/11 11:07 PM
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> > OK then heres the page with the sid and link to the remix on
> > and here is Rob Hubbard's profile page on there - who knew he looked like a
> > homosexual geography teacher? (not that I have anything against homosexuals or
> > geography teachers!)
>
> I've met both Rob Hubbard and David Whittaker. Rob's not as pervert-looking in real
> life as some of the pictures make it look
Yeah? That's pretty cool - what about Jeff Minter? Did you ever meet him? He seems like one of the C64 guys most worth meeting, in fact if you replied
"Well I *think* I did, some time in 1998 I was on my way to meet him and the next thing I remember it's a week later and I'm waking up in a ditch somewhere in the English countryside with the mother of all hangovers, smelling faintly of llama urine"
I wouldn't be at all surprised!
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| TheGuru |
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MAMEDev Dumper
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: Trebor]
#246736 - 02/16/11 11:19 PM
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> One thing that still appears 'off' to me is the intensity or volume/loudness of
> Mario's walking in Mario Bros. I was hoping this...
>
> I am not question the work or accuracy of what Derrick has applied, but my own memory
> at this point. Is Mario's walk truly that loud in the game? It overbears all other
> sounds and sounds 2-3 times louder than all other game sounds. I don't recall that
> from the arcades.
most early arcade games had several volume pots to adjust each sound. for example Space Invaders has about 7 or 8 volume pots. Most operators turn down some of the most annoying or over-powering sounds.
Maybe there are multiple volume pots on your game too that have not been added to MAME?
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Re: Mario Walking...0.141u2
[Re: Fever]
#246745 - 02/17/11 12:19 AM
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> Yeah? That's pretty cool - what about Jeff Minter? Did you ever meet him? He seems
> like one of the C64 guys most worth meeting, in fact if you replied
> "Well I *think* I did, some time in 1998 I was on my way to meet him and the next
> thing I remember it's a week later and I'm waking up in a ditch somewhere in the
> English countryside with the mother of all hangovers, smelling faintly of llama
> urine"
Nope, not Jeff. He's much harder to run into outside of the UK, and I probably wouldn't meet the 4-drug minimum. 
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