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Forcing Mame to 120Hz screen output with proper game timing
#304932 - 02/26/13 03:11 PM
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Hi. With newer 120Hz TFTs ghosting have something of the past, it is incredible to see like CRT movement with zero motion blur on them. However, that is only achieved with 120Hz screen refresh. I need MAME to output at that refresh without loosing game timing. Now, if I start MAME with -speed 2 option it shows perfectly (in a forced 60Hz Mame source) but obviously with double game speed. What I need, and I think a lot of 120Hz TFTs users will benefit also, is to keep &0Hz timing but output at 120Hz refresh. Maybe duplicating last frame, but I do not know what to change in sources to achieve that. Any help will be very appreciated. Thanks!!
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 9713
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Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
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Re: Forcing Mame to 120Hz screen output with proper game timing
[Re: harlok]
#305024 - 02/27/13 07:50 PM
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MAME could never animate the games at 120 Hz (the games would have to be individually re-programmed to allow that). It could at best output each 60 Hz frame twice. And unless your monitor's firmware is breathtakingly awful it's already doing that for you with unmodified 60 Hz MAME. So there is no way to get smoother animation.
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Re: Forcing Mame to 120Hz screen output with proper game timing
[Re: R. Belmont]
#305074 - 02/28/13 02:43 PM
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Yes I know... perhaps doubling the frame causes the blur, in which case nothing can be done except interpolating algorithms. Thanks for your reply.
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Re: Forcing Mame to 120Hz screen output with proper game timing
[Re: harlok]
#305084 - 02/28/13 05:53 PM
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> Yes I know... perhaps doubling the frame causes the blur, in which case nothing can
> be done except interpolating algorithms. Thanks for your reply.
you can try cabmame and with "redraw 1" in mame.ini
this will cause each frame to be drawn twice.
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I do all that stuff even without a Joystick 
Soft-15kHz, cabMAME, For Amusement Only e.V.
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| R. Belmont |
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Cuckoo for IGAvania
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Reged: 09/21/03
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Posts: 9713
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Loc: ECV-197 The Orville
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Re: Forcing Mame to 120Hz screen output with proper game timing
[Re: SailorSat]
#305087 - 02/28/13 06:02 PM
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> > Yes I know... perhaps doubling the frame causes the blur, in which case nothing can
> > be done except interpolating algorithms. Thanks for your reply.
>
> you can try cabmame and with "redraw 1" in mame.ini
> this will cause each frame to be drawn twice.
Right, but he wants true 120 Hz animation. Just doubling up the frames at 60 Hz won't give the clinically-clean look he describes.
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Re: Forcing Mame to 120Hz screen output with proper game timing
[Re: R. Belmont]
#305137 - 03/01/13 12:20 PM
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Now I know exactly what happens: if you double the frame to adapt the source to a superior refresh a screen judder appear. May seem like blur but it is more like seeing "double". Found that 30fps console games have this when played at 60hz TV. On MAME the same happens when you double 60Hz games to 120Hz. Frame is doubled (with redraw 1 in cabmame) or waited (which has the same effect as draw it twice) so what I see really is not blur, it is doeble frame effect. In fact nothing can be done except avoid doubling the frame, that is giving perfect 120hz refresh (which involves frame interpolation) or lowring monitor refresh speed to original (60Hz). Maybe strobing the image with a blank frame between may help to avoid double frame artifacts, but will introduce some nasty flicker. Seems it is something not easy to solve.
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Re: Forcing Mame to 120Hz screen output with proper game timing
[Re: harlok]
#305144 - 03/01/13 07:14 PM
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Well I solved it! Just adding a blank frame after every frame does the trick. Almost no flicker due to 120Hz frequency and perfect CRT animations!
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Re: Forcing Mame to 120Hz screen output with proper game timing
[Re: harlok]
#305673 - 03/13/13 12:52 AM
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I'm a newb.
How did you insert the blank frame, and, doesn't that halve the perceived brightness?
Thanks.
edit: I found this: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,130710.msg1339920.html#msg1339920
This seems out of line with what MAME and MESS are trying to accomplish. Maybe there's room here to further abstract MAME away from display altogether and to simply pass data to a rendering layer/application. In that layer you could go crazy and still keep the pure emulation MAME and MESS aim for.
again, I'm a newb. don't attack me too hard.
Edited by sandheaver (03/13/13 02:47 AM)
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Success! Software-based black frame insertion works! 60fps now has less motion blur on 120Hz LCD's
[Re: sandheaver]
#305730 - 03/13/13 11:01 PM
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I've posted a new thread on mameworld.info about the new MAME zero motion blur patch for 120 Hz displays:
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=305674
We've blogged about it at:
www.blurbusters.com/mame
It reduces motion blur by 50% on regular 120 Hz LCD's,
and reduces motion blur by 90% on LightBoost 120 Hz LCD's.
(percentages relative to a 60 Hz LCD).
It also fixes double-image effect with 240p 120Hz on 31.5 Khz CRT's
Why 90% instead of 50% with LightBoost? That's because of their strobe backlight that flash once per refresh (strobe measurement lengths as small as 1.4ms -- that's less than 1/10th of a regular 60Hz refresh of 16.7ms). 90% reduction means where there was a long motion blur during fast motion, the motion blur trail is 1/10th as long on a LightBoost LCD. The blur is so tiny during fast zooms and pans, it looks exactly like a CRT. CRT perfectly sharp motion. The LightBoost LCD successfully bypassing the pixel persistence (eliminating sample-and-hold problem) through its stroboscopic backlight (by keeping pixel transitions in total darkness between frame refreshes). Problem is, LightBoost only works stroboscopically at 120 Hz, not 60 Hz. The MAME black frame insertion fixes the problem with a black frame insertion. So we have 60Hz strobed, just like a 60Hz CRT. Either way, MAME black frame insertion will work with all 120 Hz displays, just to varying extents, depending on how they work. Usually you will get nearly exactly 50% less motion blur.
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