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Blur Busters
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Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion
#305674 - 03/13/13 01:01 AM


Hello,
A group of us collaborated on ArcadeControls to make a MAME source code modification that allows 120Hz LCD's to flicker more like a CRT (high speed video proof), using a software-based black frame insertion technique. Every other refresh is blacked out. It reduces motion blur by 50% on regular 120 Hz LCD's and reduces motion blur by 90% on LightBoost strobe-backlight LCD's; bringing them directly into CRT-quality motion territory. We believe it looks amazing with HLSL; because it reduces motion blur even further.

Webpage:
... http://www.blurbusters.com/mame/
... Binaries available

Source code patch against MAME 0.148:
... http://free-game.es/add_strobe.diff.zip

Supported strobe-backlight LCD's (CRT flicker & zero motion blur)
... http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur
... Enable your monitor's strobe backlight (e.g. LightBoost) before you run MAME.
... ASUS 120Hz monitors: VG248QE, VG278H, VG278HE
... BENQ 120Hz monitors: XL2411T, XL2420T, XL2420TX, XL2720T
... Acer 120Hz monitors: HN274H
... Samsung 120Hz monitors: 700D, 750D, 950D

Command line, only for native 120Hz displays:
mame.exe romname -nomultithreading -nothrottle -video d3d -syncrefresh -strobe

Notes:
-- YOU MUST HAVE NATIVE 120 Hz FROM COMPUTER VIA CONTROL PANEL
-- Will NOT benefit 60 Hz displays
-- Will NOT benefit HDTV's; most don't accept 120 Hz from computer (some exceptions).
-- Benefits all 120 Hz computer monitors even without strobe backlight.
-- Benefits LightBoost LCD's the most massively. Full order of magnitude motion blur elimination; straight into CRT territory. LightBoost LCD's have a stroboscopic backlight that eliminate motion blur. It has rave reviews lately and in HardForum and OCN since the tweak was discovered only 3 months ago.
-- Perfectly CRT-sharp fast pans on LCD (e.g. running in platformers, fast side scrollers)
-- The patch also produces 240p 60Hz on a 31.5Khz CRT's that can accept 120 Hz at 240p (blacked-out refreshes).
-- If using Control+T method of LightBoost HOWTO, hit Control+T (external nVidia hotkey) after you start MAME.
-- Black frame insertion halves image brightness. Adjust brightness to compensate.

Cheers,
Mark Rejhon
Chief Blur Buster -- BlurBusters.com -- Eliminating Motion Blur on LCD

---



goredaimon
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Blur Busters]
#305675 - 03/13/13 01:38 AM


Cool, lets try! My TV is 240hz. Let´s see how it shows.



Blur Busters
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD new [Re: goredaimon]
#305676 - 03/13/13 01:39 AM


> Cool, lets try! My TV is 240hz. Let´s see how it shows.

It won't work unless your computer is outputting 120 Hz to the display. Most HDTV's don't support 120 Hz from a computer (some exceptions)



fortuna_chan
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Blur Busters]
#305678 - 03/13/13 01:58 AM


with 60 hz lcd/led working good too?



Blur Busters
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD new [Re: fortuna_chan]
#305679 - 03/13/13 02:01 AM


> with 60 hz lcd/led working good too?

You need a 120 Hz LCD in order to benefit from software-based black frame insertion (insert black frames between 60 Hz MAME frames).
Another advantage is that 120 Hz LCD also reduces MAME input lag (by 1/120th of a second)
60 Hz LCD's will have no benefit from the "-strobe" command line option.

Examples:
... ASUS 120Hz monitors: VG248QE, VG278H, VG278HE
... BENQ 120Hz monitors: XL2411T, XL2420T, XL2420TX, XL2720T
... Acer 120Hz monitors: HN274H
... Samsung 120Hz monitors: 700D, 750D, 950D



kevinlayne
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Blur Busters]
#305682 - 03/13/13 03:04 AM


Sounds Great and all...love the idea of it all...but seriously the only monitors it will work on are all high end 120 hz or higher LED PC Monitors....most are 3D...who owns a $500 LED monitor just so they can play mame at CRT levels...really...!!



joey35car
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Blur Busters]
#305683 - 03/13/13 03:13 AM


Will it work on a 144 Hz?

Edit: Nevermind it does. Been looking to get this real soon.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236293

Edited by joey35car (03/13/13 03:20 AM)






Blur Busters
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: kevinlayne]
#305686 - 03/13/13 04:31 AM


> Sounds Great and all...love the idea of it all...but seriously the only monitors it
> will work on are all high end 120 hz or higher LED PC Monitors....most are 3D...who
> owns a $500 LED monitor just so they can play mame at CRT levels...really...!!


(1) Elimination of motion blur benefits everything.

Zero motion blur benefits all video games, not just MAME... Quake World, Team Fortress 2, Portal 2.... Competition gamers love LightBoost during Counter Strike... Rave reviews all around. (e.g. Team Exile 5). The problem is LightBoost only works at 120 Hz, so you need 120fps @ 120 Hz.
Zero motion blur = faster reaction time, see enemies sooner in first person shooters.

* * * You get CRT ZERO BLUR for everything, not just MAME * * *
Black frame insertion is only necessary to gain the proper 60 Hz effect, while keeping the 120 Hz LightBoost enabled.

(2) New 120Hz LightBoost monitors for under $300!!

$299 - NewEgg
$286 - Amazon

(3) These monitors are suddenly popular in the FPS gaming world.

I get 10,000 pageviews per week on my LightBoost HOWTO.
Several media are beginning to cover this.
The HardForum.com thread is over 1,000 posts long, over 75K views.
The overclock.net thread is over 650 posts long, and over 35K views.
And dozens of other forums... In only the last 3 months alone...

Hundreds of people recently bought LightBoost monitors because of such threads -- so, apparently Blur Busters indirectly pushed quite a few sales of some of these LightBoost monitors for FPS gaming. We've just only discovered that MAME 60 Hz can also join the fun, as additional benefit; it's not the only thing.

You have been Blur Busted :-)



Edited by Blur Busters (03/13/13 04:54 AM)



Blur Busters
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: joey35car]
#305689 - 03/13/13 04:33 AM


> Will it work on a 144 Hz?
> Edit: Nevermind it does. Been looking to get this real soon.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236293


Yes. All of the current 144 Hz monitors now have a strobe backlight feature (during 120 Hz operation)



HowardC
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: kevinlayne]
#305690 - 03/13/13 04:59 AM


> Sounds Great and all...love the idea of it all...but seriously the only monitors it
> will work on are all high end 120 hz or higher LED PC Monitors....most are 3D...who
> owns a $500 LED monitor just so they can play mame at CRT levels...really...!!

I'm with you. Even with the lost cost monitors posted, people with mame cabs have very specific needs. I had to buy a very specific 16:10 (not 16:9) lcd so it would fit into my cab, for example.

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't motion blur caused by running your monitor at a refresh rate too high for your pc/videocard/ect to keep up with? So wouldn't the solution be to just run a lower refresh rate?



Blur Busters
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: HowardC]
#305691 - 03/13/13 05:52 AM


> Even with the lost cost monitors posted, people with mame cabs have
> very specific needs. I had to buy a very specific 16:10 (not 16:9) lcd so it
> would fit into my cab, for example.


Agreed about cabinet requirements. Nothing can be done about that.

On the other hand, if you're looking for a good new desktop monitor for all-purpose gaming -- remember, the 120 Hz monitors, especially LightBoost, are great for all manner of desktop gaming, and some of us want to game with everything. Both sub-$300 LightBoost monitors have a portrait mode, which is excellent for MAME too; they have rotating display stands. You want a wonderful all-around desktop gaming computer monitor that also accidentally happens to be the world's best flat panel MAME monitor -- you've found it!


> Also correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't motion blur caused by running your monitor at
> a refresh rate too high for your pc/videocard/ect to keep up with? So wouldn't the
> solution be to just run a lower refresh rate?


Alas, this is theoretically true if LightBoost strobe backlight worked at 60 Hz.
... Unfortunately, nVidia hardware-locked LightBoost to 100-120 Hz.

...

How it benefits 120 Hz LightBoost LCD's

There is 90% less motion blur for 120Hz+LightBoost+BlackFrames(simulate 60Hz) than with plain 60Hz on the SAME monitor as a result! This is because we're getting approx ~2ms millisecond strobe backlight flashes, instead of an LCD frame being continuously shining for a full refresh. The flicker is 1/10th the length of a refresh (1/60sec = 16.7ms), and reduces motion blur proportionally, confirmed in tests by multiple sources and reviewers, including pcmonitors.info (VG248QE review).

At LightBoost 120 Hz, you get two strobes (~2ms) per 60fps MAME frame, which is bad. But if we go back to 60 Hz, we lose the strobe benefit and get 16.7ms sample-and-hold. So we instead stay at 120 Hz to keep the strobe benefit. The workaround is a MAME modification to mask every other strobe by having a black screen between the 60fps frames. This is the "black frame insertion" effect. So you get only one strobe flicker per 60fps frame. You get the full benefit of a strobe length that's about one-tenth the length of a traditional 60 Hz LCD refresh. The motion blur reduction is proportional to that (science & references).

Normally LCD displays don't flicker while CRT displays do. Ever wondered 60fps on LCD is more motion blurred than 60fps on CRT -- now you know why. The stroboscopic effect of CRT flicker is the major player here. Even though we got 2ms TN panels which is nearly the same 2ms as CRT phosphor decay on medium-persistence phosphor. Pixel persistence is not the limiting factor on modern LCD panels. The sample-and-hold (non-strobed) nature is the limiting factor. That's why CRT and plasma looked better until stroboscopic backlight LCD's arrived.

Since LightBoost only works at 120 Hz, we have to mask the unwanted extra strobes by blocking them with a black frame. So we get 60 Hz flicker out of a 120 Hz LighBoost display. One single backlight strobe per MAME refresh. The strobe length varies from 1.4ms to 2.4ms (photodiode oscilloscope measurement, depending on monitor's LightBoost setting). That's an order of magnitude shorter than the length of a 60 Hz refresh (1/60sec = 16.7ms), and the motion blur is also an order of magnitude less on the very same LCD display as a result, when enabling both LightBoost and black frame insertion simultaneously. Everything then suddenly becomes CRT sharp.

Recently, the ASUS VG278H (a 2ms TN LCD panel) was measured to have an effective pixel response time of 1.4ms if you enable the LightBoost strobe backlight; because the human eye only sees the strobes on fully refreshed frames (the pixel persistence is kept in total darkness). The strobes can be shorter than the pixel transitions! The pixel persistence barrier is shattered by strobe backlights.

...

How it benefits 120 Hz traditional LCD's

It also benefits other 120 Hz LCD's for a different reason.
Motion blur is proportional to the length of time a refresh is displayed for. 60 Hz LCD's display a frame for a full 16.7 milliseconds, but a 120 Hz LCD displays a frame for only 8.33 milliseconds. If you make every other frame black colored, each 60fps MAME frame is effectively only 8.33 milliseconds long. As a result, the black frame insertion effect reduces motion blur by 50%.

...

How it benefits 120 Hz CRTs

Also, display limitations can apply. 31.5Khz arcade CRT's are unable to display 240p at 60 Hz. You must run 240p at 120Hz (fix by black frame insertion), or you must use 480p at 60 Hz (fix by inserting black scan line gaps)



HowardC
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Blur Busters]
#305692 - 03/13/13 06:23 AM


Ahh there's your hiccup right there.

In the emulation scene, we primarily use Ati video cards. One of the reasons being that they handle many of these issues better.

I knew there was a miscommunication somewhere.



Blur Busters
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: HowardC]
#305693 - 03/13/13 06:28 AM


> Ahh there's your hiccup right there.
>
> In the emulation scene, we primarily use Ati video cards. One of the reasons being
> that they handle many of these issues better.
>
> I knew there was a miscommunication somewhere.

Alas, ATI compatible strobe backlight is also limited to function at 120 Hz, too.
See http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/samsung
LightBoost is just an nVidia trade name for one model of a strobe backlight.

ATI also benefit from strobe backlights, and thus the black frame insertion benefits still wins for ATI too! Sony has "Motionflow Impulse" (a special backlight-only Motionflow that does not use interpolation). There are many different trade names for different strobe backlight and scanning backlight technologies.

Also, LightBoost is a monitor feature, NOT a GeForce feature.
nVidia simply licensed it to monitor manufacturers.
Some people successfully hacked a LightBoost monitor to work on ATI cards (using a cheap nVidia laptop to 'unlock' the LightBoost feature, then plugging it back to the ATI desktop); there's nothing limiting LightBoost working on ATI.

The exact same explanations apply for both ATI and nVidia. I've done lots of research, I'm an associate member of Society for Information Display. I also wrote the Scanning Backlight FAQ which covers the science behind such technology, to gain a better understanding of impulse-driven versus sample-and-hold displays.

60fps LCD on ATI without strobe backlight is still about 10x worse motion blur than CRT
60fps LCD on nVidia without strobe backlight is still about 10x worse motion blur than CRT
ATI vs nVidia is irrelevant

Many agree CRT is better than LCD for arcade games
Strobe backlights allow CRT crystal clear motion on LCD's

We're playing on the same team!



URherenow
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: HowardC]
#305698 - 03/13/13 09:42 AM


Actually, I think motion blur comes from LCD/LED pixels not being able to turn completely off fast enough. There is that extra glow left over from turning the pixel off. The effect could be prevented almost completely (as perceived by the naked eye) with today's technology by applying power to a cell on top of the pixel, where applying power would darken the cell (thus blocking the afterglow that causes the motion blur). Kind of like the way active 3D glasses currently work.

Such a design would definitely not pass energystar/green standards!

But shit... should I file a patent?



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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: URherenow]
#305701 - 03/13/13 02:09 PM


> The effect could be prevented almost completely (as perceived by the naked eye)
> with today's technology by applying power to a cell on top of the pixel, where
> applying power would darken the cell

That is how all lcd displays work anyway.

Strobing the backlight is quicker, although it will be interesting to see how many people are sensitive to it. I had a mild intolerance to DLP displays, but I know some people can't cope with them at all.



URherenow
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What? new [Re: ]
#305705 - 03/13/13 03:36 PM


I'll need a reference for that. I'm talking about applying a charge to actively block the leftover light being emitted from a pixel as soon as I remove power from said pixel to turn it off. I don't know of any monitor that works like this, let alone "most"



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R. Belmont
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: ]
#305706 - 03/13/13 03:43 PM


> Strobing the backlight is quicker, although it will be interesting to see how many
> people are sensitive to it. I had a mild intolerance to DLP displays, but I know some
> people can't cope with them at all.

1-chip DLPs had that problem; the 3-chip that didn't use a mechanical color wheel displayed a stable image. But it turns out people valued wall-hanging over picture quality so LED "won".

Also,




R. Belmont
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: HowardC]
#305711 - 03/13/13 04:33 PM


> Ahh there's your hiccup right there.
>
> In the emulation scene, we primarily use Ati video cards. One of the reasons being
> that they handle many of these issues better.

That's not quite true: ATI is pretty much mandatory if you're running a 15 kHz CRT in a cabinet, but the non-MAME 3D hardware emulators generally run better on Nvidia.



Blur Busters
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HIGH SPEED VIDEO proof (Super Slow Mo) new [Re: URherenow]
#305714 - 03/13/13 05:07 PM


> I'll need a reference for that. I'm talking about applying a charge to actively block
> the leftover light being emitted from a pixel as soon as I remove power from said
> pixel to turn it off. I don't know of any monitor that works like this, let alone
> "most"

> I'll need a reference for that. I'm talking about applying a charge to actively block
> the leftover light being emitted from a pixel as soon as I remove power from said
> pixel to turn it off. I don't know of any monitor that works like this, let alone
> "most"

LCD's do not work this way.
LCD stands for Liquid Crystal Display
They do not emit light; that's why backlights exist.
See TFTCentral: How TFT's Work and Wikipedia: LCD.

Removing power from an LCD pixel does not eliminate light.
It takes several milliseconds for a pixel to turn "off" by itself.
This becomes a problem since a refresh is only a few milliseconds.
You have to remove power from the backlight to get even faster response.
That is the newer invention for LCD's - precisely synchronized stroboscopic backlight technologies (e.g. scanning backlights).

High Speed 1000fps Videos - "Slo Mo"

CRT versus LCD (LINK)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2PrGu2cI1oE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/embed/2PrGu2cI1oE</a>

Slow 2007 LCD - No Stroboscopic Backlight (LINK)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nCHgmCxGEzY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/embed/nCHgmCxGEzY</a>

New 2012 LightBoost LCD - Stroboscopic Backlight (LINK)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hD5gjAs1A2s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/embed/hD5gjAs1A2s</a>


I created the last two videos; I own a high-speed camera, being Chief Blur Buster. As you can notice, LightBoost makes LCD look like CRT:


Quote:


original post (Transsive)
Then yesterday I, for some reason, disabled the 3d and noticed there was no ghosting to be spotted at all in titan quest. It's like playing on my old CRT.



Quote:


original post (Inu)
I can confirm this works on BENQ XL2420TX
EDIT: And OMG i can play scout so much better now in TF2, this is borderline cheating.



Quote:


original post (TerrorHead)
Thanks for this, it really works! Just tried it on my VG278H. Its like a CRT now!



Quote:


original post (Vega)
Oh my, I just got Skyrim AFK camera spinning (which I used to test LCD's versus the [Sony CRT] FW900) to run without stutters and VSYNC locked to 120. This Benq with Lightboost is just as crystal clear if not clearer than the FW900 motion. I am in awe. More testing tomorrow. Any of my doubts about this Lightboost technology have been vaporized! I've been playing around with this fluid motion on this monitor for like 6-hours straight, that is how impressive it is.



Quote:


OCN post (Baxter299)
way to go vega enjoyed your review and pics ..thanks for taking the time .got my VG248QE last friday .replacing my fw900 witch is finally taking a rest in my closet .



Quote:


OCN post (Romir)
Thanks for the timely review Vega.
I went ahead and opened mine and WOW, it really does feel like my FW900. I haven't tried a game yet but it's down right eerie seeing 2d text move without going blurry.


The FW900 is a famous 24" widescreen CRT that has been a long-time favourite of CRT die-hards. If you were used to CRT gaming in the past -- and is very sensitive to motion blur -- the motion blur problem has now been fully solved on these LightBoost monitors!



Dullaron
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What plugin are you using to show those videos? new [Re: Blur Busters]
#305719 - 03/13/13 06:02 PM Attachment: Untitled.png 143 KB (0 downloads)


Fire Fox keep on saying I'm missing a plugin. Nothing is showing.

I have these installed.

[ATTACHED IMAGE]

Attachment



Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Intel Core i5-4460 3.20 GHz / 8.00 GB RAM / AMD Radeon R9 200 Series
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Dunard-1884/
https://sites.google.com/site/o0kinghanco0o/mame_building_info (Updated on the 07/18/2017 at 9:49 PM.)



URherenow
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Re: HIGH SPEED VIDEO proof (Super Slow Mo) new [Re: Blur Busters]
#305721 - 03/13/13 06:10 PM


Ever hear of OLED? The very definition says they emit light. Not everything is an LCD nowadays... My idea (however power hungry) hasn't been done, but certainly CAN be done (regardless of where the light is coming from).

It actually might even use less power than strobing a backlight.



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Blur Busters
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Many OLED's have Motion Blur due to Sample-And-Hold new [Re: URherenow]
#305722 - 03/13/13 06:46 PM


> It actually might even use less power than strobing a backlight.

LightBoost monitors only use about 20 watts, far less power than a CRT (electron gun is less efficient)
Yes, we should encourage all technologies including OLED.


>> Ever hear of OLED? The very definition says they emit light. Not everything is an LCD
> nowadays... My idea (however power hungry) hasn't been done, but certainly CAN be
> done (regardless of where the light is coming from).

OLED is great but unfortunately, sample-and-hold OLED has motion blur. It is scientifically known(click the Microsoft Research paper) that even instant pixel response (0ms) can have lots of motion blur due to the sample-and-hold problem - which is what you get if you don't find a way to shorten the amount of time a frame is actually VISIBLE for (either via higher Hz or via black periods between refreshes).

Sample-and-hold means the frame is continuously shining for the whole refresh. Your eyes are continuously moving while tracking moving objects. Your eyes are in a different position at the beginning of a refresh than the at the end of a refresh; this causes the frame to be blurred across your retinas. All the research papers (Microsoft, Sharp, Nokia, Universities) have confirmed the motion blurring issue caused by eye tracking on sample-and-hold displays.


(From Microsoft Research)

The PS Vita has motion blur during fast scrolling because it does not strobe the OLED pixels.

Only impulse-driven OLED's have zero motion blur.
Strobing needs extra brightness to compensate for the dark periods, they are still working on OLED brightness. Thankfully, some strobe OLED's was shown at CES in Las Vegas; they looked amazing!
But they cost many thousands of dollars...

For some scientific study to help people understand why impulse driving is better for motion blur (sample-and-hold also explains why CRT 60fps@60Hz still has much clearer motion than regular LCD 120fps@120Hz).

Quote:


Temporal Rate Conversion” (Microsoft Research)
Information about frame rate conversion, that also explains how eye tracking produces perceived motion blur on a sample-and-hold display, including explanatory diagrams.

Correlation between perceived motion blur and MPRT measurement
by J. Someya (SID’05 Digest, pp. 1018–1021, 2005.)
Covers the relationship between human perceived motion blur versus Motion Picture Response Time (MPRT) of the display. This also accounts for motion blur caused by eye tracking on a sample-and-hold display, a separate factor than pixel persistence.

What is needed in LCD panels to achieve CRT-like motion portrayal?
by A. A. S. Sluyterman (Journal of the SID 14/8, pp. 681-686, 2006.)
This is an older 2006 paper that explains how scanning backlight can help bypass much of an LCD panel’s pixel persistence.

Frame Rate conversion in the HD Era
by Oliver Erdler (Stuttgart Technology Center, EuTEC, Sony Germany, 2008)
Page 4 has very useful motion blur diagrams, comparing sample-and-hold versus impulse-driven displays.

Perceptually-motivated Real-time Temporal Upsampling of 3D Content for High-refresh-rate Displays
by Piotr Didyk, Elmar Eisemann, Tobias Ritschel, Karol Myszkowski, Hans-Peter Seidel
(EUROGRAPHICS 2010 by guest editors T. Akenine-Möller and M. Zwicker)
Section “3. Perception of Displays” (and Figure 1) explains how LCD pixel response blur can be separate from hold-type (eye-tracking) motion blur.

Display-induced motion artifacts
by Johan Bergquist (Display and Optics Research, Nokia-Japan, 2007)
Many excellent graphics and diagrams of motion blur, including impulse-driven and sample-and-hold examples.




And hundreds of other research papers (and mainstream too; Google "eye tracking motion blur"), some that focus on the impulse-driving (strobing), and others that focus on interpolation, or a combination of both. The common theme is that these agree on overcoming motion blur caused by eye-tracking on sample-and-hold displays. Many OLED's such as PS Vita has the same limitation, but doesn't have to have that limitation. OLED can do it, but not all of them do.

See article: Why Do Some OLED's Have Motion Blur?



Blur Busters
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Direct YouTube Links to High Speed Videos new [Re: Dullaron]
#305724 - 03/13/13 07:04 PM


> Fire Fox keep on saying I'm missing a plugin. Nothing is showing.

Strange, I'm now including direct YouTube links, which will also benefit iPad/Android users:

YouTube High Speed Videos

1. CRT vs LCD
2. Slow 2007 LCD - No Stroboscopic Backlight
3. New 2012 LightBoost LCD - Stroboscopic Backlight


Dullaron, it looks like you have the 3D Vision plugin installed; that automatically means you're using a 120 Hz monitor. Are you using 3D Vision 1 (no LightBoost) or are you using 3D Vision 2 (it has LightBoost)? Have you ever tried the CRT-quality LightBoost tweak for 2D gaming? (requires 120 Hz LightBoost monitor)



Derrick Renaud
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD new [Re: Blur Busters]
#305731 - 03/13/13 11:23 PM


> > Cool, lets try! My TV is 240hz. Let´s see how it shows.
>
> It won't work unless your computer is outputting 120 Hz to the display. Most HDTV's
> don't support 120 Hz from a computer (some exceptions)

Don't 240Hz TV's do this automatically. They take a 60Hz picture, interpolate an extra frame in between making 120Hz then add 120 frames of black for 240Hz.

Not saying they take 120Hz in, but they already strobe a 60Hz picture.



Do not p-mail me for help compiling my updates, ask on the board.
Do not request sound for your favorite game. I work on whatever, when I get around to it.
If you have schematics for discrete sound games not easily found on the net, I would be interested.



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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD new [Re: Derrick Renaud]
#305735 - 03/13/13 11:50 PM


> Don't 240Hz TV's do this automatically. They take a 60Hz picture, interpolate an
> extra frame in between making 120Hz then add 120 frames of black for 240Hz.
> Not saying they take 120Hz in, but they already strobe a 60Hz picture.


That is correct, so it's not MAME's responsibility to do the black frame insertion stuff on this specific TV. It becomes the TV's responsibility. Just use regular MAME. MAME can only do black frame insertion if it has 100% full control of the 120 Hz refresh.

Different TV's do different tricks to create 120Hz and 240Hz. Some of them use black frames and strobing. Others use interpolation. Or a combination of the two. Unfortunately, frame interpolation tricks adds input lag, so black frame insertion is better for video games. Most LCD TV's are not very good at doing zero-motion-blur MAME, you need a plasma or CRT TV instead. One rare exception is the Sony Motionflow Impulse which has a special non-interpolation Motionflow mode on the Sony HX950 series that looks great with MAME. Most Motionflow modes don't work well for games (laggy & artifacts) but that special Motionflow Impulse mode is wonderful for MAME. It is a better black frame insertion that does a good 75%:25% dark:visible ratio, which reduces motion blur by 75% instead of 50%. That special strobe mode on that specific Sony model doesn't need the black frame insertion trick because the TV is doing an excellent job of black frame insertion on a 60Hz signal, if you change the Motionflow setting to "Motionflow Impulse". So MAME doesn't have to. Not all TV's do a good job of 120Hz and 240Hz, and most can't do the trick during Game Mode.

The MAME source code modification only benefits 120 Hz computer monitors that have full control of the 120 Hz signal inside the computer. That's why a source code change is needed. And the modification does it very game-friendly manner, zero added input lag, in a very simple manner. Which makes them great for the amazing LightBoost LCD monitors that came out.



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LESS INPUT LAG! Also Makes 240p@120Hz look better than 480p@60Hz on 31.5Khz CRT new [Re: Blur Busters]
#305751 - 03/14/13 06:48 AM


Calamity of ArcadeControls report this patch works amazingly well with 31.5Khz CRT's. It produces the proper 240p 60Hz effect when running 240p 120Hz on 31.5Khz CRT's, while having less input lag! (Partially compensates for the mandatory input lag caused by the MAME frame buffer)

Running at 120 Hz has saves half a frame of input lag (8.33ms) over 60 Hz, a big win for Street Fighter and other fast-reaction button-mash games! Doing the black frame insertion masks the second repeat of a refresh, giving the proper 60fps@60Hz effect, while keeping the reduced input lag of 120Hz!



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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Blur Busters]
#305757 - 03/14/13 10:29 AM


Does strobing the monitor wear it out any quicker?



sandheaver
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: URherenow]
#305759 - 03/14/13 12:29 PM


> Actually, I think motion blur comes from LCD/LED pixels not being able to turn
> completely off fast enough. There is that extra glow left over from turning the pixel
> off.

That's true, but the strobed backlight mitigates this by turning off the backlight during that blur period, when the monitor has received the signal to turn that pixel off, and the monitor has done so, but the LCD pixel is still fading. (you don't see that fade-out anymore, because it's not backlit during that period, and accordingly there's much less blur.)



kevinlayne
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Blur Busters]
#305760 - 03/14/13 12:33 PM


Great to know, i do not play a whole lot of pc games where i would still warrant a 300 dollar monitor...but thank for the info....btw i live in canada, where those monitors are a much harder find and are alot more expensive...good info though...keep up the good work...



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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: VirtuaIceMan]
#305765 - 03/14/13 04:21 PM


> Does strobing the monitor wear it out any quicker?

No. LED's are semiconductor devices that turn on and off, much like the semiconductor devices on a CPU that switch billions of times per second. The monitor needs to turn on and off the LED's only 120 times per second.

LED's alse use unsynchronized PWM cycling for dimming, and using these precise synchronized strobes is actually lower Hz than that (but looks a hell lot better than PWM for me, due to the complete disappearance of motion blur)



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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: kevinlayne]
#305845 - 03/16/13 08:38 PM


> ....btw i live in canada, where those
> monitors are a much harder find and are alot more expensive...good info though...keep
> up the good work...

We, the Blur Busters, is located in Toronto, Canada. Canada Computers sells ASUS VG248QE's for cheaper than USA Amazon and USA NewEgg. A mere $279 Canadian!



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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Blur Busters]
#305997 - 03/19/13 08:11 PM


P.S. This change has also been successfully made to another emulator, the UAE Amiga Emulator.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=871912

For adding to other emulators, it is actually a very surprisingly simple change to the emulator (only a few lines of code - less than two dozen) in many cases. Just a few tricky UI aspects, but this can be disabled by default and only enabled via a command line option.



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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: R. Belmont]
#306900 - 04/05/13 06:38 AM


> 1-chip DLPs had that problem; the 3-chip that didn't use a mechanical color wheel
> displayed a stable image. But it turns out people valued wall-hanging over picture
> quality so LED "won".

I think cost played a part also. But it also never achieved enough success for people to want one, while the average person knew about LCD and Plasma TV's. I can't remember seeing a DLP TV in a shop, so I think retail had a hand in that.



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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: ]
#306910 - 04/05/13 03:38 PM


Speaking of flicker, the recent discovery that ATI cards have serious driver bugs such that a 60 Hz average framerate would get you (worst case) alternating 24 and 8 ms frame times (instead of 16.66 every time) makes me wonder if trying this "blur busters" on one would cause a time/space inversion or turn people into ants or something ;-)



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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: ]
#307248 - 04/13/13 08:18 PM


> I think cost played a part also. But it also never achieved enough success for people
> to want one, while the average person knew about LCD and Plasma TV's. I can't
> remember seeing a DLP TV in a shop, so I think retail had a hand in that.

DLP is very popular in projectors. Conference rooms, home theaters. You can get a beamer for only $500-$1000 (search Amazon and ebay), and display on a big wall or side of a house. Fun for parties. Also, movie theaters that went digital, are often using DLP to display the picture now. Most Real3D and Disney Digital 3D projectors are DLP.

Edited by Blur Busters (04/13/13 08:19 PM)



Calamity
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: R. Belmont]
#307254 - 04/13/13 10:40 PM


> Speaking of flicker, the recent discovery that ATI cards have serious driver bugs
> such that a 60 Hz average framerate would get you (worst case) alternating 24 and 8
> ms frame times (instead of 16.66 every time) makes me wonder if trying this "blur
> busters" on one would cause a time/space inversion or turn people into ants or
> something ;-)

Hi R. Belmont,

Is there any link or reference for this bug? I'm really curious to read about it.



kriechbaum
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Blur Busters]
#310361 - 06/16/13 01:45 PM


Hi All,

Anyone to re-upload the mame strobe options modified?

The links are dead

Thanks



harlok
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: kriechbaum]
#310383 - 06/16/13 08:18 PM


Reuploaded

Diff:

http://db.tt/linhVuTQ

Exe:

http://db.tt/jOknzHEU



kriechbaum
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: harlok]
#310447 - 06/17/13 04:17 PM


Thanks a lot !!!!!!!

Nice job



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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: kriechbaum]
#311348 - 07/10/13 05:26 PM


Updated code from cpharlock:

Quote:


Here you are:

DIFF:

http://db.tt/linhVuTQ

COMPILED:

http://db.tt/jOknzHEU

And the good news:

I just finished compiling Openmsx and I modded it to add a black frame, and it works! However I am still looking into it as it has some sound sync issues, when it is ready I will post it here. Impressive to see again sprites as they should be in my TFT





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Re: LESS INPUT LAG! Also Makes 240p@120Hz look better than 480p@60Hz on 31.5Khz CRT new [Re: Blur Busters]
#311382 - 07/11/13 05:50 PM


Can we see a listing of CRTs (arcade or desktop) that support 240p signals at 120hz?

-Jim



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Re: LESS INPUT LAG! Also Makes 240p@120Hz look better than 480p@60Hz on 31.5Khz CRT new [Re: jdubs]
#311505 - 07/14/13 09:30 PM


> Can we see a listing of CRTs (arcade or desktop) that support 240p signals at 120hz?
> -Jim

Apparently, many 31.5KHz CRT's apparently manage to sync to 120Hz, since 240p@120Hz behaves like 480p@60Hz, except there's twice as many vertical blanking intervals. Same 31.5KHz bandwidth. It'll just exercise the vertical defection a little more.

A known monitor mentioned to work:
Makvision 2929D



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Web-based animation of black frame insertion new [Re: Blur Busters]
#311506 - 07/14/13 09:31 PM


Here's a web-based animation of black-frame insertion:

http://www.testufo.com/#test=blackframes

Run this using Chrome, IE 10+, or FireFox 24+.



Elaphe
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Blur Busters]
#327719 - 07/03/14 12:53 PM


Does this patch mean a performance hit? I mean, if a particular game struggles to get 60 fps, wouldn't now be much worse, because it has to get 120 fps?

Oh, any idea where to get the version for 149 or 153? I'm trying to apply the 148 patch in 149 source and I get errors.






MooglyGuy
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Elaphe]
#327736 - 07/03/14 10:41 PM


> I mean, if a particular game struggles to get
> 60 fps, wouldn't now be much worse, because it has to get 120 fps?

Um, seeing as the emulator isn't running the emulated CPUs and shit twice as fast, no, not at all?



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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Elaphe]
#327737 - 07/03/14 10:42 PM


> Does this patch mean a performance hit? I mean, if a particular game struggles to get
> 60 fps, wouldn't now be much worse, because it has to get 120 fps?

Huh...? Read again. Every other frame is black.

S



Elaphe
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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Sune]
#327948 - 07/09/14 10:17 AM


Has anyone be able to apply the current 0.148 patch to 0.149 source?

Any idea when an updated version of the patch will be released.

Also, in what order would you apply this patch so that everything goes fine when compiling? I have these patches:

soundsync
cave games (not neccesary any more with 0.153, right?)
neogeo unlicensed games






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Re: Eliminate LCD motion blur -- CRT quality on 120 Hz LCD -- with MAME software black frame insertion new [Re: Elaphe]
#327959 - 07/09/14 04:50 PM


> Also, in what order would you apply this patch so that everything goes fine when
> compiling? I have these patches:
>
> soundsync
> cave games (not neccesary any more with 0.153, right?)
> neogeo unlicensed games

If you modify MAME and it breaks, you keep all the pieces. Good luck!


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